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General => General discussions => Topic started by: noobie on September 07, 2012, 03:22:23 pm

Title: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 07, 2012, 03:22:23 pm
Hello,

i'm a complete beginner in "Game" programming and watching SFML for a while...
Made a complete SFML - UML Model to understand the system (already modified  ;D) better.
SFML works like a charm so far. But now i want to look at 3D. At the moment i try to make a UML Model of Ogre3D.. hahaha what a crazy complex System....  :'(
But there are still some Questions open.
On the side i compare some libs. In the attached picture is my actual status.
Maybe someone did the research already or has the same questions.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: eXpl0it3r on September 07, 2012, 04:02:25 pm
But there are still some Questions open.
On the side i compare some libs. In the attached picture is my actual status.
Maybe someone did the research already or has the same questions.
I don't really understand what you want to achive with that post... ???

I mean it's quite easy to find a feature list of each and every library you can think of and whatever is missing on that feature list and exists in another list can be added as not supported.

Every other comment is mostly personal and can be seen diffrently for other people, e.g. I don't really agree on the TGUI/SFGUI bullet points. ;)

So again I'm wondering, what exactly are you trying to achive with your post?

As for your UML diagrams; most of the libraries support doxygen-like comments and thus it's possible to generate a full blown documentation (like the one SFML has) with just a few clicks and they are imho way more informative than some diagrams. ;)
Doxygen even generates inheritances diagrams on it's own, so you can also get an overview on how things are connected.
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: FRex on September 07, 2012, 04:24:59 pm
Why are things like 'one developer' '(...) commercial products' 'no sfml support' 'cheap piece of crap' in (what I assume are) downsides and upsides?
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: Nexus on September 07, 2012, 04:45:26 pm
For 3D programming, I started with Ogre. It was a giant mess, even the Hello World came with this configuration dialog and much unneeded stuff. The compile times were enormous (almost one minute for Hello World), apparently the developers didn't care about header dependencies. My first impression couldn't be much worse, so I took a look at an other library.

Irrlicht was quickly installed. The whole library is much more lightweight, the all-including header requires only a few seconds to compile. Although there are some points I don't like (naming inconsistency, manual reference counting), the API is generally nice and easy to learn. I have been able to get results in a short time. Up to now I have been quite satisfied with the features, but I haven't written a complex game with it yet.

Note that there are many alternatives, you could also take a look at full-fledged game engines like Unity, it all depends on your needs and preferences.

By the way, your table is grossly incomplete and compares questionable points.
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 07, 2012, 04:50:02 pm
Hi, eXpl0it3r

as excpected the first reply from u :).
I created the UML by myself because i have no good experience with automated generated UML's.
And plus: my learning curve is steeper by copy paste the code, read the header files, reorganise the system and handle problems/Errors. Just my personal taste.

For what the post? in the last 2 months i read threads about SFML vs SDL, Ogre3D vs Irrlicht and GUI Systems.
But still i cannot make a decision.
The graphic in the attachment is my actual knowledge status.
Sure every answer is personal. Thats what i want.

e.g.
Quote
I don't really agree on the TGUI/SFGUI bullet points
Why? Its just my current information, or correctly: my current questions. Personaly i tend to TGUI because of images. But its still heavy under development.

- SFML is great but not  for 3D games
- Ogre3d is great for 3D rendering but is the OIS Input better then SFML ... i cannot see a serious window handling oder thread system in Ogre? it seems they plan a better version for 1.8 - 1.9 ?
- I like SFML for the input system the window handling, audio and the easy to read code
- I dont like SDL just because its C

So pls give me your personal attitude ;) Any experience with 3D libs?

@FRex
One Developer means: if this person e.g Texus loose the interest or motivation the lib is meaningless?
The same for SFML ;) -> so disadvantage

If a lib is used for commercial products u can be sure that the lib works great and is getting support from their developers. I can see this at SDL and Ogre3D. Ogre3D meanwhile gets good feedback and support from professional developers (just look in the forums). e.g. HellHeavenFX Ogre Plugin http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=70299 -> so advantage

I tried the new SDL 2.0 but i looks like the updates comes slowly and the tutorials too.

@Nexus
Quote
The compile times were enormous (almost one minute for Hello World), apparently the developers didn't care about header dependencies. My first impression couldn't be much worse, so I took a look at an other library.
Same as me. Actually i try to split the core by myself. :( The core is insanely complex!

Quote
you could also take a look at complete game engines like Unity, it all depends on your needs and preferences
Yeah. Unity give u all for nothing ;) . I am still a programmer and like it to code things by myself and have full control.
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: eXpl0it3r on September 07, 2012, 05:14:40 pm
For what the post? in the last 2 months i read threads about SFML vs SDL, Ogre3D vs Irrlicht and GUI Systems.
But still i cannot make a decision.
Well that highly depends on what you want to do... ;)
For most of the beginners I'd advise to start with SFML, because if you think you know C++ then make a few 2D games with SFML and you'll soon notice how less you know about C++ and you'll also experience that programming a game isn't just programming, but way more planing and creating graphics.
Later on if you feel really established in C++ and game programming, you can still use SFML but make all the drawings with OpenGL directly, thus you get the possibility to draw 3D objects.

- SFML is great but not  for 3D games
- Ogre3d is great for 3D rendering but is the OIS Input better then SFML ... i cannot see a serious window handling oder thread system in Ogre? it seems they plan a better version for 1.8 - 1.9 ?
You can't really compare SFML and Ogre3D.
SFML is a library that provides functionalities for multimedia things, where as Ogre3D is a 3D render engine. Thus the tasks are completly diffrent and can't be compared. If you want to use SFML, you either have to write your own engine around it, or use existing engines that use SFML (not sure if such projects exist) or use an engine that lets you create your own renderer for which you then could use SFML (to some parts).

Why? Its just my current information, or correctly: my current questions. Personaly i tend to TGUI because of images. But its still heavy under development.
Like I said the points you listed reflect personal preferences and experience. E.g. you list 'active development' and 'fast bug fixes' for TGUI, but not for SFGUI. That's just because you don't know enough about SFGUI's development. ;)
Also TGUI is by far not faster than SFGUI. The one developer of SFGUI is constanty fine tuning the render engine and the whole load gets spread equally one CPU and GPU (you can find some more information in the forum somewhere about that).

- I dont like SDL just because its C
I agree! ;D

One Developer means: if this person e.g Texus loose the interest or motivation the lib is meaningless?
The same for SFML ;) -> so disadvantage
In general most probably, but I don't think a project like SFML would just die if Laurent wouldn't want to work on it anymore. ;)

If a lib is used for commercial products u can be sure that the lib works great and is getting support from their developers. I can see this at SDL and Ogre3D. Ogre3D meanwhile gets good feedback and support from professional developers (just look in the forums).
One can not say that in general.
A lot of very crappy code gets used in commercial products. I guess it very often also depends on advertising and lots of other factors.
Also if SFML gets used in commercial products they don't need to specify and if it gets linked statically we may never know, where as the old versions of Ogre3D and SDL used a LGPL license and thus many developers just linked dynamically and everybody got to know what was used.

Yeah. Unity give u all for nothing ;) . I am still a programmer and like it to code things by myself and have full control.
Well then don't look at Ogre3D nor Irrlicht, they are both render engines and take away quite a bit of control. :P
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 07, 2012, 05:49:29 pm
as mostly a good answer. -_-

i agree:
- SFML is a good start
- clearly you can not compare ogre and sfml ....
- in know ogre3D is "just for 3D rendering"! ;) But in the meanwhile it gives components for it that supports all needed 2D drawings for a GUI (Gorilla(and 3D),MyGUI,CEGUI)
- Ogre 3D needs Threads -> so it support Threads... But here i think SFML do it better? SFML do it with the "half" sized code and do what it should do ....
- The window system in Ogre is as far as i tested buggy as hell .... With SFML i had no problems :)
-
Quote
A lot of very crappy code gets used in commercial products
I agree! ;) Self produced  ;D
- i havent tested OIS so far but much ogre users try to use other input systems. Dont know why? so i think SFML's Input system is better?


Result:
The best way to make a structured engine code would be to use SFML for:
- Input
- Windows
- Audio
- System Functions
Ogre for:
- 3D rendering
Network:
- Open ....

 :)

@eXpl0it3r
it seems u are a SFML Fan? ;) Me too!
I just try to get in the 3D sector. Write a 3D Engine by myself is a no go ....
I just want (i think the most) the best possibly combination for:
- easy to read/understandable code
- good performance
- portability

 ;D
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: eXpl0it3r on September 07, 2012, 06:15:19 pm
Ogre for:
- 3D rendering
...
I just try to get in the 3D sector. Write a 3D Engine by myself is a no go ....
I just want (i think the most) the best possibly combination for:
- easy to read/understandable code
- good performance
- portability
I'd then use Irrlicht, as Nexus said it's lighter and for most parts better coded.

Network:
- Open ....
You know that SFML does also network stuff? ;)
Otherwise you probably can't find something better than boost ASIO regarding portability.

@eXpl0it3r
it seems u are a SFML Fan? ;) Me too!
Well I wouldn't call myself a fan (never been fond of that term ;D ), but I think SFML is (probably) the best multimedia library. Otherwise I probably wouldn't invest that much time in helping others get to know SFML better. :)
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 07, 2012, 06:29:49 pm
Quote
You know that SFML does also network stuff?
Don't open that door ;)
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: eXpl0it3r on September 08, 2012, 02:13:46 am
Don't open that door ;)
But I like open doors better than closed ones. :P
I guess you have some bad experience with SFML's network part?
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 08, 2012, 03:00:06 am
Quote
I guess you have some bad experience with SFML's network part?

No. Didnt use it till now.

I have to process other chunks first.

e.g.
- take a look at Irrlicht :P
- the GUI
- learn that stuff
- find a game idea to test my skills , hehe
....

But what i know about SFML networking till now:
- its fast and simple :P
- no IOS support

Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 18, 2012, 11:02:30 pm
Here are my actual progress with Ogre3D and SFML.

Irrlicht:
- i cannot say why i dont like it.
Maybe just because Ogre is more popular, has its own file format, much render optimations, much more tools and plugins....

SFML:
- Cant use the SFML Window System and makes no sense. Ogre has more features and platforms.
- Even if i would use the Window System i couldn't because the SFML Window is derived from the GL Context . In Ogre the Windows are generated from the RenderSystems like GL,D3D,GLES etc.
- The InputSystem OIS just needs the WindowHandle but uses DirectInput (Seems they change it in the next Version). Here still i like the SFML Input System more.
- Actual i think i use the SFML Keyboard, Mouse,Joystick and maybe later the IOS Touch from OIS if its possible.
Here it would be great if the SFML Input could be seperated from the window System and just needs a Window Handle? 8)

Ogre:
- GUI -> here it uses a Overlay System, still dont know how SFML can fit in here
- got the Core(namespaces,lib organisation) so far that i can load a mesh(still no material, animations)

this bad little purple viewport and white ogre head in the attachement was hard work!
I nearly destroyed the Ogre Core and putted it together like a puzzle (How stupid).

Because its just a "hobby" and i try to keep my motivation up i need such eye candys :)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: eXpl0it3r on September 18, 2012, 11:33:05 pm
- Actual i think i use the SFML Keyboard, Mouse,Joystick and maybe later the IOS Touch from OIS if its possible.
I guess you mean iOS. SFML doesn't support iOS nor touch 'events'...

Here it would be great if the SFML Input could be seperated from the window System and just needs a Window Handle?
I'm not quite sure why you really want to use SFML here, but use other stuff for rendering. I'd say either use A or B, but don't try to mix everything together other wise you'll end up in a hugh code mess with many many dependencies and one might not want to work with the other.
Sure one can use things that are meant to fit together or are generic enough to work with anything, but trying to force library X to work with library Y just because X has one small feature doesn't make much sense to me.
I'm not sure how the sf::Mouse/sf::Keyboard/sf::Joystick are implemented underneath, you might be able to just use them without the need of window and maybe you could even take them out of the library and build your own little one or build it directly in your application. SFML is under the MIT license so feel free to do whatever you want. ;)
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 18, 2012, 11:53:49 pm
Hello my swiss neighbor eXpl0it3r.

Quote
I guess you mean iOS. SFML doesn't support iOS nor touch 'events'...
I know SFML don't support the IOS(iPhone OS). So i thought to use the OIS(Object Oriented Input System) for IOS Touch.
But i read in other posts, that laurent is planning for -> "3.0 +" IOS support. It would be nice, but we cannot be sure ;)

Quote
I'm not sure how the sf::Mouse/sf::Keyboard/sf::Joystick are implemented underneath, you might be able to just use them without the need of window
I am sure its possible, but see it as a feature request and better modular Desgin :P
I think others could need it too?
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: Nexus on September 18, 2012, 11:59:55 pm
I am sure its possible, but see it as a feature request and better modular Desgin :P
I think others could need it too?
What eXpl0it3r probably meant is that these three classes may already now be independent of a window. And as far as I remember, Laurent designed them with this aspect in mind.

The events (sf::Event) however are window-dependent, but they only make sense inside a window.
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: eXpl0it3r on September 19, 2012, 12:07:31 am
I know SFML don't support the IOS(iPhone OS). So i thought to use the OIS(Object Oriented Input System) for IOS Touch.
It's iOS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/iOS) and not IOS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_(disambiguation)), that's what got me confused... ;)

But i read in other posts, that laurent is planning for -> "3.0 +" IOS support. It would be nice, but we cannot be sure ;)
Well if you plan on waiting 10 years or so... ;D

What eXpl0it3r probably meant is that these three classes may already know be independent of a window.
Yes! :)
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: FRex on September 19, 2012, 12:28:45 am
Quote
SFML is under the MIT license so feel free to do whatever you want.
No it's not:
Quote
SFML libraries
(...)
Source code is provided under the terms of the zlib/png license
But that's even more permissive.
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 19, 2012, 12:32:07 am
I try to figure out the sense from your answers.

Quote
Well if you plan on waiting 10 years or so...
So you think there will be no changes and i shouldn't use SFML for Input?

Quote
What eXpl0it3r probably meant is that these three classes may already know be independent of a window.
So the Input System can be easily separated-> so  use SFML? Separate it by myself and don't wait for changes ...

Or do you agree with me? -> Use SFML for Keyboard, Mouse, Joystick and others for iOS

 ???

Maybe you know this guy ;)
http://www.wreckedgames.com/forum/index.php/topic,5598.0.html
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: eXpl0it3r on September 19, 2012, 12:57:30 am
Quote
SFML is under the MIT license so feel free to do whatever you want.
No it's not:
Right, I always confuse them since they are quite similar. ;)

So you think there will be no changes and i shouldn't use SFML for Input?
If you look at the SFML 2 history which is over 2 years long, then you can guess that SFML 3 won't be out next month or so. 10y was obviously just a joke (at least I hope so).


Quote
So the Input System can be easily separated-> so  use SFML?
You still didn't get it: It's already seperated!
It's just within the window mosule but nobody forces you to use a window.

Quote
Separate it by myself and don't wait for changes ...

Or do you agree with me? -> Use SFML for Keyboard, Mouse, Joystick and others for iOS
Do whatever fits your needs, it really doesn't matter as long as you can work with it. ;)

Quote
Maybe you know this guy ;)
http://www.wreckedgames.com/forum/index.php/topic,5598.0.html
Never heard of him or OIS.
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: N_K on September 19, 2012, 06:33:04 am
I don't really get what's the problem with the input system. Although haven't tried it myself, I've seen people using SFML for rendering and using OIS for input handling. OIS is engine/framework independent, you can even use it with text-mode applications if you want.

But, think about it. SFML already has its own input system, designed and developed by the same developer who did the library itself, so unless you need to use some really special input device (PS2/PS3/XBox(360)/Wii controllers, steering wheels, etc.), don't make your life harder and just use the input system that comes with SFML.
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: Laurent on September 19, 2012, 07:35:35 am
Quote
SFML is under the MIT license
zlib license :-X
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 19, 2012, 09:03:59 pm
So, one evening later i looked at the input code :P

I just changed the lines in the mouse class with Window calls e.g.:

Vector2i InputImpl::getMousePosition(const Window& relativeTo)
{
    WindowHandle handle = relativeTo.getSystemHandle();

to

Vector2i InputImpl::getMousePosition(const WindowHandle relativeTo)
{

so far it seems to work  ;D
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 22, 2012, 02:51:49 pm
Me again! :)

I still don't get it! Where is the Input System separated from the Window?

I removed all Window classes, picked out the Input methods and made one EventListener class to store the Events per Window (e.g. Ogre -> the RenderWindow), see attachement.

The Window events,Mouse and Keyboard seems to work per Frame and buffered now.
Just have to love the SFML code!

Still don't have a Joystick, but as i see it doesn't need a Window Handle or something?
The Joystick States are updated in the pollEvent loop (per Frame?)?



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: eXpl0it3r on September 22, 2012, 03:03:06 pm
I still don't get it! Where is the Input System separated from the Window?
Yeah we still don't get what you don't get either...
sf::Keyboard, sf::Mouse and sf::Joystick are classes that are not directly connected to sf::Window or sf::RenderWindow, but of course they get compiled into the same library as sf::Window and sf::Event etc.
The functions themself though aren't connected to the window class, you can just take the functions (SFML/src/Window/<OS>/InputImpl.cpp & SFML/src/Window/<OS>/InputImpl.hpp) and plug them into your own stuff without having to write-out hundreds of SMFL code parts you don't need.
Thus the input system (sf::Keyboard, sf::Mouse and sf::Joystick) is separated from the window itself (sf::Window).
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 22, 2012, 03:19:30 pm
see it as a request or improvement suggestion for the current window system if users just want the input system. 
As far as i can see the pollEvent cannot be used without the window Object.

But so far i can live with it (Did it by myself and got it to work with Ogre). :-X
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: Nexus on September 22, 2012, 03:34:39 pm
see it as a request or improvement suggestion for the current window system if users just want the input system.
See what as request? Sorry, I don't exactly see your problem, either.
 
As far as i can see the pollEvent cannot be used without the window Object.
Yes, and as I already mentioned, it doesn't make sense without a window object, since the events are connected to the window. For example, a Closed event fires when the window is closed, MouseMoved event triggers when the mouse is moved in the window, etc.
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 22, 2012, 03:41:16 pm
grrr

I feel like a stupid little piece of scum now.  :'(

My Problem?
- I searched for a good input System for Ogre
- Didnt find a solution to use SFML for Ogre

And now i got it to work with much changes ....

So jesus, what can u not understand what my problem is/was ? :P
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: eXpl0it3r on September 22, 2012, 03:50:51 pm
Events are something totally different than just plain input stuff and we've many times stated that events can only be used with a window.

If you're requesting to split the sf::Keyboard, sf::Mouse and sf::Joystick into their own small 'input' library or similar, than this is 'okay', although I don't think this should be done to SFML... ;)
If you want a separated library that can handle events, then this is simply not possible, since as Nexus already stated just now and earlier, events are connected to a window.
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 22, 2012, 03:55:32 pm
if there's no way i have to accept it , but i don't want to believe it  ;D
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: Laurent on September 22, 2012, 04:07:34 pm
No way to what? To know if a window is closed, without a window? To know if a key is pressed in a window, without a window? To know if a window gains/loses focus, without a window? ...

You see, all events are connected to a window, there's no event that could make sense without one.

So what exactly would you like to be able to do? Say it clearly (be more precise than "input system") and let's end this endless discussion :P
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: N_K on September 22, 2012, 04:22:17 pm
So you wanted to use SFML to handle input in your Ogre-based application?

In this case, you're doing it wrong. OIS is very well integrated into Ogre since many years, and is considered to be the de facto input system for OGRE. It even comes with the Ogre SDK. It is used in almost all Ogre games. It is more sophisticated than SFML's input system (since it's only purpose is to handle input), and supports many "exotic" devices.

Save yourself from a lots of (pointless) work, and just go with OIS. If you're experiencing some issues with it, head to the Ogre forum and report it there. The main OIS developer (pjcast on the Ogre forums) used to be a member of the Ogre development team, and although he retired now, there are many OIS-experts there.
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 22, 2012, 04:44:00 pm
@laurent
Short, just wanted to set:
- WindowHandle
- windowClass.lpfnWndProc

Didn't want to start an endless discussion...
If you want to close this Thread its ok ;)
Doesn't look like i get what i wanted, so i should spend my short freetime in coding not in senseless discussions.

@N_K

for the time being i stick with SFML :P

so close
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: Laurent on September 22, 2012, 05:57:07 pm
Quote
Short, just wanted to set:
- WindowHandle
- windowClass.lpfnWndProc
Sorry but this is far from being clear, and I don't see the relation with inputs.

Is it so hard to clearly describe what features you would like to have? :P
You can write some pseudo-code if it can help.

Quote
Didn't want to start an endless discussion...
I said that because everybody seems to ask the same questions to you, and nobody really understands what you want ;)

Quote
OIS is using DirectInput as far as i know.
And? It's a good thing, DirectInput offers more features than the Win32 API.

Quote
Its not integrated in Ogre its just delivered with it.
SFML is even less integrated to Ogre ;)
And as long as they work fine together, what's wrong?

Quote
OIS uses the Ogre Windowhandle, nothing more
What else would you like it to use?
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 22, 2012, 06:35:46 pm
Quote
You can write some pseudo-code if it can help.
Its your window code ;)

e.g. if the window is not generated by SFML then the following is needed for input?:
- for the mouseposition the WindowHandle is needed?
- for keyboard, mouse the - windowClass.lpfnWndProc and called
void WindowImplWin32::processEvent(UINT message, WPARAM wParam, LPARAM lParam) is needed?

did i missed something thats needed for keyboard,mouse,joystick input?
Why not make it independent? What i did with picking out all mouse,keyboard functions.

Just my opinion. But i am not really familiar with the window system, so i could really missed something...
But at the moment it seems the mouse,keyboard works with just giving the WindowHandle and set the events in the WndProc.

Quote
I said that because everybody seems to ask the same questions to you, and nobody really understands what you want
Yes, i just wanted to leave this thread because i am not able to explain it (bad english), or maybe i should really use OIS. But i like the SFML code so much ;)

Quote
And? It's a good thing, DirectInput offers more features than the Win32 API.
I thought DirectInput is deprecated for keyboard and mouse? And additionaly i like it fast and simple :P


Quote
SFML is even less integrated to Ogre
And as long as they work fine together, what's wrong?
I cannot see that is something integrated? OIS is just so much independent that the WindowHandle is enough. I think (but don't know) that the DInput thread is catching the inputs?

Quote
What else would you like it to use?
blub, nothing ... but as we can see its possible to separate the window system from the input system.

But its your library and thats just my inexperienced opinion :P

Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: Laurent on September 22, 2012, 06:44:38 pm
A window is needed only where it is relevant, for example if you want to get the mouse position relatively to a window. But for global inputs, there's no need for a window, just take a look at the tutorials or the documentation of sf::Keyboard, sf::Mouse and sf::Joystick.

If you have a window and want to connect the event system of SFML to it (is that what you want to do??) then you can't do that with SFML.

OIS is indeed an independant library and can be combined easily with any other library if it can give you the window handle. So it integrates perfectly with Ogre, and could integrate as well with SFML or any other windowing library. It uses the best API that the OS provides (DirectInput is deprecated but it still works, and maybe they'll switch to XInput in the future, who knows?). So I fail to see why you don't want to use it, it seems to meet all your requirements.

I hope that I summarized things clearly enough :)
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: noobie on September 22, 2012, 06:57:58 pm
Well then SFML was the wrong choice. :(

Thx for such a clear answer ;)
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: Acrobat on September 24, 2012, 10:10:33 am
Did not read all posts but i can say couple words (i worked with ogre, sfml, sdl, and many others).
Ogre : very large framework, not the way to start from (also it's always pain to export models)
sfml : easy and minimal (way to start from), you can use MyGUI, CEGUI, Magic Particles (very nice lib) and many others libraries, also it's easy to switch from 2d to 3d, just need to know some basics about matrices.
sdl : more advanced than sfml, it uses C, but it doesn't mean you can't write on C++, also you can attach any other library (C/C++)

If you want something simple 3d with editor try maratis3d.

P.S. the quality of graphics depends on artist skills
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: eXpl0it3r on September 24, 2012, 10:17:07 am
sdl : more advanced than sfml, it uses C, but it doesn't mean you can't write on C++, also you can attach any other library (C/C++)
I hope you didn't mean the last part just for SDL...
You can attach any other library to any other application too.

Additionally I don't really see how SDL is 'more advanced'. It's just more popular. Or did you mean the programmer has to be more advanced to be able to work with it? ;)
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: Laurent on September 24, 2012, 10:25:49 am
Quote
Additionally I don't really see how SDL is 'more advanced'
It has more features. SFML is still quite minimal.
Title: Re: Comparison SFML vs SDL -> GUI and OGRE3D
Post by: Acrobat on September 24, 2012, 10:27:12 am
Additionally I don't really see how SDL is 'more advanced'. It's just more popular. Or did you mean the programmer has to be more advanced to be able to work with it? ;)
Yes, sfml hides (or wrap) many things