SFML community forums
General => General discussions => Topic started by: Laurent on October 25, 2012, 01:01:47 pm
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Hi
Today I was contacted by Packt Publishing (http://www.packtpub.com/). They'd like to publish a book on SFML, and are looking for someone to write it. Since I'm overloaded with work I can't do it myself, so I ask here in case someone is interested.
The book would be based on SFML 2.0, which will hopefully be out before the book ;D
I know some experienced programmers here who would be able to write such a book, it would be awesome if someone was actually interested. It would be amazing for SFML and its community :)
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It would be nice to know some details.. Like the size of the book, how much they pay you, how much you'd pay the authors. etc.
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I'd also like to see some more details. :)
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I know more details, but I first need to ask them if they allow me to post that on a public forum.
If someone is interested, I hope that money won't be its main motivation... :P
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If someone is interested, I hope that money won't be its main motivation...
I'm sure both Haikarainen and me are talking about an appropriate reward only. ;)
A fun fact is that I had already started an SFML book 2 years ago, and since then there has been a big item in my GTD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_Things_Done) section "Sometime" called "Write book". ;)
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A fun fact is that I had already started an SFML book 2 years ago
That's good to know. How far did you go?
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Not very far. It had an introduction chapter with basic information. Also it was about SFML 1.6 -- not very useful for a SFML 2.0 book I suppose.
Edit: And it was German, btw. ;-)
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I just got a reply from them, they allow me to show you what they said to me.
In fact they even have a public portal for authors, where you may find answers to your questions:
http://authors.packtpub.com
Details about royalties:
http://authors.packtpub.com/content/royalties
Regarding the book itself, here are the interesting parts:
Packt is planning to publish a book on SFML, titled SFML Game Development . This book will be showing people how to use this emerging API to make their game programming easier so that they can focus on gameplay, and creating projects they can use in a portfolio or just show to other people
Internally, we’ve ‘committed’ to publishing a book on SFML. This means that we’re actively looking for authors, and whilst we have a general ‘scope’ of what we’d like to accomplish with the book (something along the lines of developing a few games people can then modify expand upon themselves after reading the book), we have not set any chapters in stone. We’re looking for a potential author willing to work with us on this project in order to construct a more definitive outline, and hopefully to also move forward and write the book.
All Packt books have a deadline of six months for first drafts. After this, we have some additional time for rewrites, but after this we spend 1 month preparing the book for publication.
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This sounds really great and I think it's something the SFML community has been waiting for quite a while. :)
As a matter of fact I amplaning on working on a set of tutorials which would slowly progress in difficulty and complexity and which should empower readers to create their own nice game at the end. When you have such a thing in mind the idea of publishing the tutorials in book-form isn't that far away and seeing that topic here now, seems like a very interesting coincidence.
BUT as much as I like to write down and pass on knowledge, I somehow don't feel like that I'm best suited for this task. Since my native language is not English, I make quite a lot of mistakes and to me the whole phrasing seems often to be repetitive and artificial. Furthermore my knowledge on SFML doesn't go into all modules, e.g. I've nearly no idea how to work with the networking part and have never really experimented with the audio module. And then there are the usual factor like time, etc...
I'd gladly team up with someone or contribute in other ways to such a book, but don't see me as the author of the very first official SFML book. ;)
That said I'm probably gonna keep working on my tutorials (for now), which don't require to be as correct and nicely written as a book and if someone wants to team up, I'd be here to help out.
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I got a mail from them today from like nowhere. I was kind of chocked and thought it was a scam at first. But when I realaized it was legit I jumped on it and said I was very interested and enthuiastic about it :D
They even referred to my CV on my website which was an extra nice suprise :)
Anyway I am interested in any info I can get. I want to of course write articles on more advanced topics like shaders and dynamic shadow casting in 2D but I will understand if that won't be possible though :/
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I got a mail from them today from like nowhere. I was kind of chocked and thought it was a scam at first. But when I realaized it was legit I jumped on it and said I was very interested and enthuiastic about it :D
So would that now be one book or two books (one 'from' Laurent and one from you)? ???
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So would that now be one book or two books (one 'from' Laurent and one from you)?
No, I think they just contacted everyone they could find who is "involved" in SFML. Finding me was straight-forward, but I have no idea how they found other people, and how many they have contacted.
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These kind of books usually have several authors where each author write about a set of topics. Read Real-Time Rendering and you'll see what I mean, each topic/chapter starts with the names of the developers that wrote that part.
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I was wondering about a reward simply to know how much time I can invest in contributing to it.
Sounds like a load of fun, I remember started writing a gametutorial with SFML2 (when it was still 1.99 though), didnt come too far with it though. I will see if I can find it. I am interested in contributing anyhow :)
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Maybe a book written by multiple authors could be a good solution. It seems more realistic, since nobody seems to have the time and/or skills (including english skills) to write the full book :)
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A book about SFML is really a good idea. It's a pity you don't have the time to write it, Laurent, since nobody knows SFML as well as you do. I find it always interesting to read texts about libraries of the developers themselves, it expresses very well the thoughts they had during the design process. And it ensures the library is used the way the author intended ;)
For example, I found Modern C++ Design by Andrei Alexandrescu very interesting, because it explains many concepts with a direct reference to the Loki library.
BUT as much as I like to write down and pass on knowledge, I somehow don't feel like that I'm best suited for this task. Since my native language is not English, I make quite a lot of mistakes and to me the whole phrasing seems often to be repetitive and artificial. Furthermore my knowledge on SFML doesn't go into all modules, e.g. I've nearly no idea how to work with the networking part and have never really experimented with the audio module. And then there are the usual factor like time, etc...
I'd gladly team up with someone or contribute in other ways to such a book, but don't see me as the author of the very first official SFML book. ;)
Exactly those things came to my mind, too :)
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Wow, this is truly amazing. I don't have the experience nor the knowledge in many parts of SFML in general, but I would certainly find a way to help out with it if I did. SFML is truly growing to a greater scope and this is a proof of it.
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Wow, what a great opportunity for SFML! ;D Watch out SDL
Now, after reading through this I think I should sum it up.
A publisher wants a book written on SFML by Laurent, but Laurent does not have the time or will to write the book. So Laurent offered the position of author to whoever wants to take it up, but no one feels as if they have the skills or time themselves to write the book.
...Therefore Laurent suggested that it could be a community effort, which is after reading this thread, that is currently the best idea...
So what is needed is someone to head the project. The project manager can come up with what sections the book will have and will work with Laurent on what actually goes in the book. Then other people can write up text and code for each section and everyone else can proof check each others work (this will take care of the poor English skills). Then maybe SFML can have it's own book.
Now personally I can maybe do proof reading (I am a native English speaker), but I do not want to lead this because my programming skills are with .NET (not C++) and because my time is currently filled with other work.
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A publisher wants a book written on SFML by Laurent, but Laurent does not have the time or will to write the book. So Laurent offered the position of author to whoever wants to take it up
No. They started by me because I'm the main developer of SFML, so I obviously know it more than anyone else, but now they'll look for someone else. I posted here to help them (and me -- I'd really like to find someone to write this book :D).
So what is needed is someone to head the project. The project manager can come up with what sections the book will have and will work with Laurent on what actually goes in the book. Then other people can write up text and code for each section and everyone else can proof check each others work (this will take care of the poor English skills). Then maybe SFML can have it's own book.
What would the project manager do? From what you say, I think the publisher and future writer(s) would be enough to do this job ;)
Now personally I can maybe do proof reading (I am a native English speaker)
I think they have their own readers for that.
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Sounds excellent, that way we can contribute with bits and pieces and with some good editing this can come out without needing one or two people to get in the great undertaking of making the whole book on their own.
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No. They started by me because I'm the main developer of SFML, so I obviously know it more than anyone else, but now they'll look for someone else. I posted here to help them (and me -- I'd really like to find someone to write this book :D).
Well I did not intend for you to take it that way, I was not trying to say that they wanted just you to write the book. Just that they asked you first.
What would the project manager do? From what you say, I think the publisher and future writer(s) would be enough to do this job ;)
I should have wrote project manager in quotes like "project manager". I simply meant that someone needs to be in charge if we go with the multiple authors approach. Because if someone does not take a leadership position, there will be parts of a book flying all over the place. "Without leadership there is chaos." Someone doesn't need to be formally assigned "project manager", but there still needs someone to give leadership. Just like your the "project manager" for SFML, you decide what belongs in SFML and what stays in private repositories. The "project manager" for the book would have the final decision(along with you Laurent, or it could be you) and would decide on book sections, let everyone know what needs to be wrote, review submissions, and you should get the idea...
A suggestion to help with this (if we take the route of multiple authors) would possibly a new forum section. That way all contributions and directions for the plan of the book could be organized there.
I think they have their own readers for that.
Once again, I meant as with the community approach to writing the book, as it comes together everyone will be able to check each others' work for obvious spelling mistakes and/or grammar mistakes before it sent to a publisher (hopefully that will not take too long).
Sounds excellent, that way we can contribute with bits and pieces and with some good editing this can come out without needing one or two people to get in the great undertaking of making the whole book on their own.
That is exactly what I am talking about :D
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Well I did not intend for you to take it that way, I was not trying to say that they wanted just you to write the book. Just that they asked you first.
Yeah, it was just to make it clear that:
- they don't want me -- just someone who can write the book
- I don't offer anything to anyone, just forwarding the proposal
I should have wrote project manager in quotes like "project manager". I simply meant that someone needs to be in charge if we go with the multiple authors approach. Because if someone does not take a leadership position, there will be parts of a book flying all over the place.
If there are a lot of authors, yes, they'll definitely need a "manager". But the publisher will probably have a word to say about the management of the book contents, too.
Once again, I meant as with the community approach to writing the book, as it comes together everyone will be able to check each others' work for obvious spelling mistakes and/or grammar mistakes before it sent to a publisher (hopefully that will not take too long).
Sure, but since they do it anyway, we probably don't need to do that ourselves. Of course there will probably be readers here anyway, and of course they'll always be helpful :)
Sounds excellent, that way we can contribute with bits and pieces and with some good editing this can come out without needing one or two people to get in the great undertaking of making the whole book on their own.
If we do it this way, we should be careful to keep the amount of contributors reasonable. The book's contents must be consistent, and writing musn't become a giant mess where everybody does a little something on its side :)
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I ll have quite some free time in the next months, and i know SFML decently, my english is not too bad i'd say.. Just saying i'll gladly help write the book, if you need me!
Be it a few chapters or other contributions, I am open to it!
Cheers, I love the idea of the book!
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Hello. First of all i want to say that a book would be great for sfml. I would make it way easier for beginners to start with game programming. I myself started game programming with a similar book (it was on allegro though :) )
Then I would like to add that I would love to contribute to the book, but for me it's like everybody else. I would only be able to write one or a few chapters, because I don't feel like I know a little detail about the library. For example I've worked a lot with the audio modul, but only a tiny bit with the network modul. English should not be a problem. So if the idea of writing the book as a community or with multiple authors (which I both really like) I would love to contribute.
Foaly
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So if someone now would decide to take the lead, what would that persons next action have to be?
Would you Laurent redirect the publisher to that person, or would that person have to contact the publisher, if so how would he do that? ;)
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Let's wait a few more days, just in case someone would like to write the book alone.
If nobody wants to do it, I'll then contact the publisher and check with them whether a community book would be a good idea or not.
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Just to clear things up, how advanced should the contents be? Is there a guideline for the contents already?
And aside the juice of the book, what kind of haste would the author have to be in? Tight deadlines? I lost my job recently and I'm growing more interested in the project, maybe its doable :)
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Just to clear things up, how advanced should the contents be? Is there a guideline for the contents already?
This would be discussed once the author(s) and the publisher get to talk details about the book. ;)
And aside the juice of the book, what kind of haste would the author have to be in? Tight deadlines?
See one of the first posts with the links and information (6 month till first draft).
I lost my job recently and I'm growing more interested in the project, maybe its doable :)
Sorry to hear that...
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Look I don't think that a community based book works. I was thinking something like the "top" sfml users collaborate. Otherwise it is just going to be chaotic. Though if they don't want several authors it would probably be nice for the selected author to have someone on the forum to get feedback from and ideas. So others could still indirectly be part of the book
Also we talked about it on IRC and Laurent you have to write the foreword, history, some small part :-D
DevilWithin: I don't think it will be so advanced. Though you can probably assume that the reader can program in C++
Laurent: Hope you will have officially released sfml 2 by the time this book comes out xD
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Look I don't think that a community based book works. I was thinking something like the "top" sfml users collaborate. Otherwise it is just going to be chaotic.
That's what I think too.
Also we talked about it on IRC and Laurent you have to write the foreword, history, some small part :-D
Already asked by the publisher, and agreed ;)
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Look I don't think that a community based book works.
Fully agree to that. A book should not be a collection of everyone's tutorials. It should be a consistent source of pure SFML power, printed on paper. :) (preferably by the library author himself; too bad you don't have the time, Laurent)
If you guys, whoever will do it, need someone for the networking stuff, drop me a line. I'm sure I can afford time for a chapter.
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That's probably more in the line on how it would work, we write on what we know best ;) For me that would be shaders and post processing I guess :)
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Well little update here. I've been contacted again :)
They gave me more information this time though seems like the time is reduced to 4 months for the initial draft and the book is planned for 220 pages.
The content to be covered will be:
- Initialising Your Window (Setting up the rendering context)
- Making it a Game (Actually adding some basic gameplay)
- Game States and More! (Using threads to manage game states, i.e. switching between menus and levels)
- Eye Candy (Making things look even prettier)
- Making it Epic (Really adding the 'cool' gameplay features)
- Crank Up the Bass (Adding sound)
- Forever Alone? (Adding basic multiplayer support)
- Polish (Finishing touches)
So I find it as there will be quite some interesting topics to cover in the book :) Though it depends if they want independent chapters or they want a guide for the user to follow.
I'm interested in what kind of game would be nice to develop in the book? Pong is easy to make and easy to make networked. But that's just plain boring! Cool would be a 2D RPG I guess but that can quite easily grow quite big and not even work as networked.
I want to say that I am very open to discussion even if they would decide that I write it alone, or anyone else for that matter. The royalties is not the driving force in this project, the community is in my honest opinion and a book without some ideas from all the other guys wouldn't show what SFML is all about :)
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In case we go for a "community book", here is what the publisher says about it:
I would love for us to be able to do a community book. The problem that arises here is that we typically need a ‘lead writer’ to collate problems, queries and questions that the group may have. It’s a lot of work on our end as well in terms of paperwork. Say you had 10 people in the community willing to write a book, we’d need to draft a contract between 10 people, with the appropriate advance rates and royalties agreed. It’s a lot more complicated than contracting a single author, but in my view the prospect of developing a community title is highly appealing.
We’ve published multiple-author books before, and it is a lot of work from an editorial viewpoint – but if we can then say that this book was written by the SFML community for the SFML community, I think that hard work would pay off. How many people are you thinking of? If we could get 7 people to write a single 25-35 page chapter each, that seems reasonable to me – but then the scope of the book (and what we’d actually do) comes into question.
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I'm in touch with the commissioning editor now as well and he of course pointed out that they are toying with the idea of the "community book". He though didn't know I was among them it seemed so I pointed that out.
Anyway he wanted me to ask what you guys would feel about me writing, do I have your support, who wants to participate in this and with what do they want to participate? Is there anyone else than me that feel they got time to write parts to the book? Or do people only feel they want to come with ideas and help out a little?
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I'm interested in what kind of game would be nice to develop in the book? Pong is easy to make and easy to make networked. But that's just plain boring! Cool would be a 2D RPG I guess but that can quite easily grow quite big and not even work as networked.
I'd say a 2D RPG is too complex to develop in 4 month and write a detailed book about it, then again RPG is topic that can possible mean anything.
I would rather keep a look out to some arcade-like game, since they are enjoyable for the widest audience and fairly simple and straight forward to understand and implement. It may be boring yes, but better simple, doable and have a finished and polished game instead of a complex, harder to understand and maybe only a semi-finished game. ;)
I would love for us to be able to do a community book. The problem that arises here is that we typically need a ‘lead writer’ to collate problems, queries and questions that the group may have. It’s a lot of work on our end as well in terms of paperwork. Say you had 10 people in the community willing to write a book, we’d need to draft a contract between 10 people, with the appropriate advance rates and royalties agreed. It’s a lot more complicated than contracting a single author, but in my view the prospect of developing a community title is highly appealing.
We’ve published multiple-author books before, and it is a lot of work from an editorial viewpoint – but if we can then say that this book was written by the SFML community for the SFML community, I think that hard work would pay off. How many people are you thinking of? If we could get 7 people to write a single 25-35 page chapter each, that seems reasonable to me – but then the scope of the book (and what we’d actually do) comes into question.
I like the idea of a community book, but as has been said before, it's very hard to manage and to get a enclosed book...
Anyway he wanted me to ask what you guys would feel about me writing, do I have your support, who wants to participate in this and with what do they want to participate? Is there anyone else than me that feel they got time to write parts to the book? Or do people only feel they want to come with ideas and help out a little?
I'd fully support you and whoever would want to join you.
I'm quite familiar with the graphics module (except shaders) and could help you out there, if needed and I also got some understanding of basics in game development (state handling, resource managment, ...).
Maybe you could contact DevilWithin (or he joins here again too), since he was quite open to writing on it. ;)
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Maybe you could contact DevilWithin (or he joins here again too), since he was quite open to writing on it. ;)
If DevilWithin or anybody else wants to talk with me I am available on the IRC channel. Will be fun to see what ideas people have :)
Come with ideas even if you don't plan on participating. Couldn't hurt right?
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Actually we created a new channel called #sfml-book you can join if you want to discuss with us.
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Actually we created a new channel called #sfml-book you can join if you want to discuss with us.
For those who can't participate (including me), don't forget to report important questions/news/decisions here ;)
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Well we are brainstorming a lot right now so a lot of things changing. But it looks like it will be hard to fit an entire game into only 220 pages and 4 months. But we'll see later when we got more stuff ironed out.
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But it looks like it will be hard to fit an entire game into only 220 pages and 4 months
Don't hesitate to discuss with the publisher, I think they are open to suggestions and modifications. They may have relevant advices too, since it's not the first book of this kind that they publish.
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Alright I am currently writing up interested participants and writers. I will only write you as a writer if you can say with 100% certainty that you will be able to put the required time and effort into it. I will be trying to form the chapters a bit more concrete later the week and might get a better image on exactly what and how much has to be written.
Anyway let me know and I'll write you up. Here's a link to the read-only of the document: http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/ro.h4TeU0VBa2r/latest
Edit: Seems like the read-only version can't view lists properly. But should give you a basic idea of what we have discussed.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2j5jihw.png)
Image so you can see how it should be.
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Thanks.
To clarify:
- are you officially the "lead", i.e. the one who syncs with the publisher, defines the final contents, etc.?
- do you need a forum to work with all contributors? (can be private if needed)
I'd like to clarify my role as well. I'd like to supervise the whole thing -- not taking decisions, but rather have an eye on everything (code and book), to make sure that everything goes in the right direction, and that I won't scream when I read the final book ;D. Of course I'll also answer any question that people involved in this book need to ask me.
Would that be ok for you?
Unrelated question: do you plan to write the code in C++11?
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Well don't know if I am the official lead but I am the one dedicating most effort into it as I have already arranged a lot of my free time to enable myself to write the book. I've asked if others want to write but at most I get "I want to but can't promise anything" and those I put under interested participants. Currently it looks like I will be alone in writing. But I am still waiting on response from Packt and other SFML developers.
Sure the library is your baby and we want to give a good image of it in the process :)
The more you are a part of the process the better. Do you have anything to say about the first revision that has been posted here?
And I probably won't write in C++11, I aim to write so all platforms supported by SFML can follow the book and it has to be easy for new C++ developers to get into it. From my understanding MSVC is pretty far behind on this and getting boost to work is not something I would call newbie friendly. Correct me if I am wrong?
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Is the book really targeted at C++ newbies? To learn C++ there are already a lot of books that do explain that very well. I'm always annoyed by books that are about a specific area of programming and try to teach the very basics of the underlying programming language.
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Is the book really targeted at C++ newbies? To learn C++ there are already a lot of books that do explain that very well. I'm always annoyed by books that are about a specific area of programming and try to teach the very basics of the underlying programming language.
The target group according to Packt is "Young C++ Developers" which means they know C++, more or less. But I guess most who will read the book will know ONLY C++ and not even how to link a library.
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Do you have anything to say about the first revision that has been posted here?
Looks good.
A few comments:
- the document doesn't mention what kind of game is implemented in the book (so we're a little lost when you talk about tilemaps, player, projectiles, etc.)
- the chapter about lighting looks big, probably too advanced (compared to its importance for the game)
- do you think you can put all these chapters in 220 pages? In fact 220 pages doesn't seem to be a lot for this kind of book, but maybe it's just me
I think using C++03 is better, too. As long as it's modern C++03 ;)
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Do you have anything to say about the first revision that has been posted here?
Looks good.
A few comments:
- the document doesn't mention what kind of game is implemented in the book (so we're a little lost when you talk about tilemaps, player, projectiles, etc.)
- the chapter about lighting looks big, probably too advanced (compared to its importance for the game)
- do you think you can put all these chapters in 220 pages? In fact 220 pages doesn't seem to be a lot for this kind of book, but maybe it's just me
I think using C++03 is better, too. As long as it's modern C++03 ;)
Ah crap, thinking like a simple platformer and somehow cover everything Packt requested. And yes that chapter is quite big and it was the first thing to be flagged for being "cut". Though it would cover the "eye candy" request very well with render textures and shaders. It would give the reader a big "WOW!" factor for what is possible to do with SFML so it's a shame it probably won't fit. Most probably it will be non-shadowed light sources for bullets or something. And I have sent it as a question to the editor on how soft the 220 pages limit is and what potential alternatives would be. Hopefully I will be able to work with them over time, if they see that there is something awesome that I need a little extra time for they could be kind enough to give that to me :)
Anyway don't think anything is cut in stone. This was more or less just brainstorming by several people that we wrote down. Go ahead to come with your own ideas guys, it's still open if you want to participate or if you want to write with me.
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I read the latest entries of the topic diagonally, and i want to backup my initial position, I will help without a problem!
I even have a few ideas on it, will try to join IRC tonight as well!
Being unemployed , time won't be a concern i guess, and any money is welcome, given the circumstances!
Just a little addendum here, I've put together a pretty draft-stage MOBA game, online and everything, which is working well, even though it is basic for now. Since that genre is a simplified multiplayer RPG, and is pretty popular these days, could be a nice idea to elaborate on it... Just throwing out the idea since it's a good difficulty/length relation from the developer point of view, while covering the client-server principles of any game..
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I read the latest entries of the topic diagonally, and i want to backup my initial position, I will help without a problem!
I even have a few ideas on it, will try to join IRC tonight as well!
Being unemployed , time won't be a concern i guess, and any money is welcome, given the circumstances!
Just a little addendum here, I've put together a pretty draft-stage MOBA game, online and everything, which is working well, even though it is basic for now. Since that genre is a simplified multiplayer RPG, and is pretty popular these days, could be a nice idea to elaborate on it... Just throwing out the idea since it's a good difficulty/length relation from the developer point of view, while covering the client-server principles of any game..
Nice :D
I'm just wondering, do you do anything custom or is everything pure SFML? No extra OpenGL commands and so on? I think that's a requirement we should abide by as it could become easily too much otherwise. Anyway I'll look forward to talk with you on IRC :)
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I do use custom things in my code, but we can focalize pretty much anything for an exclusive sfml use!
I think its a good idea to write the book as a way to take the sfml "legos" to build your way up until a concept game. That said, seems reasonable to introduce basic ui systems, animations and so on!
I am excited about this work, it seems it will actually bring something good for the gamedevelopers :D
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I am willing to help in proof reading and will surely give ideas if needed to. Given a community book is too much of a hassle then it's better the normal way. I do not compromise myself entirely in any way, but I want to help if I can and it doesn't disrupt my University and game programming time (which probably won't happen, but I still make the exception).
Just a little addendum here, I've put together a pretty draft-stage MOBA game, online and everything, which is working well, even though it is basic for now. Since that genre is a simplified multiplayer RPG, and is pretty popular these days, could be a nice idea to elaborate on it... Just throwing out the idea since it's a good difficulty/length relation from the developer point of view, while covering the client-server principles of any game..
I was thinking in a common space shooter or a platformer, both cover plenty of topics respecting game programming and unless they are extravagant (like my shooter), they don't require that much work and can be easily kept simple, without having to worry a lot about background stories (you can't have an RPG without it) and a whole lot of things that have nothing to do with SFML and game programming.
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This is a really good idea. I would definitely read this esspecially to get more into SFML 2.0. I've been using SFML 1.6 for over a year now and 2.0 has a large enough difference that a few examples of functions would be nice.
On that note... I do like how all the documentation of 2.0 has an example of the function or variable type but it would be great to get an explination on how to use the returned values and such.
Edit: also there's a slight problem I see with the concept of this book... SFML wasn't necessarily made for the development of games. While that may be a common use for it I think a more correct concept of a book would be more of a general tutorial on using SFML. While I personally am using SFML to develop a game of my own. The reason I mention this is Laurent has said that SFML is a general media library not a game engine for not adding a few functions is the fact that SFML is a broad libaray.
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also there's a slight problem I see with the concept of this book... SFML wasn't necessarily made for the development of games.
From what did you deduce this? ???
Surely SFML offers more than a library just for games, but it's main purpose was I believe directed towards game development. ;)
Also that it should involve game dev wasn't a decision we made, but it was what the publisher wanted us to do and I think it's the best way to clearly give an example that uses (nearly) everything SFML has to offer. :)
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Got another answer from Packt and I guess I am the lead author :)
Anyway they want me to make a list of the people who wants to contribute as authors in an official capacity. Right now it looks like me, Haikrainen and DevilWithin. Anyone else please let me know so Packt can start with the needed paperwork!
Also we need to have a clear way to communicate with each others. So DevilWithin I still haven't heard from you, can you come in to IRC or contact me by mail on how you want to communicate? groogy@groogy.se
They liked my initial outline of the chapters. They want me to add a bit more in there so I iron out the chapters a bit more. So if you want to be part of this you have to hurry up and "apply".
Also what's your opinion on how the Brainstorm Revision 2 document looks right now Laurent?
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Also what's your opinion on how the Brainstorm Revision 2 document looks right now Laurent?
Looks good so far. I'll probably have more to say when there are more details written :)
Also we need to have a clear way to communicate with each others.
I can open a (private) forum here, if you feel like it would be a good way to communicate.
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That sounds awesome! Sure open up a forum for us.
So far it is me, Haikrainen and Nexus just PM'ed me. DevilWithin if you still want to just tell Laurent to add you as well :)
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Do you want a category with several forums? Or just one forum?
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Just one forum will be enough :)
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Done.
Let me know if everything works fine:
- you're moderator
- only the members you mentioned should be able to see and use the forum
Send me a PM whenever a new member must be added (or maybe you can do it directly?).
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Hey!! Sorry, been busy, sign me up! I'm short on time for three days but then fully available! :)
Anything I am at artturmoreira@gmail.com, can be found on skype as well most times!
As soon as the schedule clears up I can be on IRC most of the time too!
Just a question, Groogy, and sorry to ask this now, but:
"We pay an advance against future royalties. This guarantees that you won’t be left out of pocket during the writing process, and that you’ll still make money from the book even if it fails to sell."
Is this real, what are we expecting? Just asking to know how I will plan my time, so I don't go out of business too soon hehe :)
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"We pay an advance against future royalties. This guarantees that you won’t be left out of pocket during the writing process, and that you’ll still make money from the book even if it fails to sell."
Is this real, what are we expecting? Just asking to know how I will plan my time, so I don't go out of business too soon hehe :)
I have no idea about that. We probably will get more information when the paperwork is done. You might be able to ask them yourself as soon as the paperwork is sorted out.
Anyway hopefully Laurent will have added you to the forum :) Just fill out the contact information and then spew out your ideas. I've also added you to the document folder on my google drive.
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Thank you kind sir! I will do my best :)
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Man this sounds awesome. I would love to do this. Though at the moment there is already a lot of people. I have the time but I think too many people are involved. Well it is hardly like I can not do anything else. I got my android port sitting here.
If the target is people who have written console text games and never done graphical games. I would dumb it down a lot. Threading will not be needed.
Something I remember Making as one of my first games a long time ago was a bad ass asteroids game. It was simple and looked good.
Advantages are you do not need a scene graph just a list of entities and everything is on screen.
All collisions cause destruction. No need to work out point of intersect. With a platformer you need to worry about if you collide where should you be.
I used circular collision. It's simple to understand and matches well to asteroids.
You can expand on it easily with black holes(with gravity pull), and picking up resources for points easily.
Multi-player real-time games are always complicated. I have spent ages studying about all the networking models. It is not simple at all to do networking suitable for the net.
For something like chess the networking with sfml would be very easy.
On some more thought I suppose I am underestimating the size of the book. 440 pages is a pretty big book.
I have an old beginning openGL book that is 260 pages and goes from setting up your window to shadow maps and vbo's.
I wish I could be involved in your discussions. Though I am sure everyone would and everyone would have access to the book before it was published. No need to buy it.
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I wish I could be involved in your discussions. Though I am sure everyone would and everyone would have access to the book before it was published. No need to buy it.
If someone is that into sfml already that they don't just listen but get involved they won't need the book either way. ;)
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Sounds like a totally awesome idea. If this was to follow through I would defiantly buy it :D
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Very interesting, I'll definitely buy it if it gets published! :)
And not to be a downer, but from the few people I know who've published technical books, writing books is one of the WORSE experiences you can have. But educational I'm sure. Even publishing a book containing chapters written by different people can take years, so don't join this project lightly. ;)
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I wouldn't mind having a copy... as long as it has tons of examples and resources to pull from it.
Then I might consider a hard copy for my fancy on desk book shelf, for quick references. :P
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Just gotta say, I'm new to SFML and I am looking forward to the release of this book. Will definitely be picking up a hard copy. The outline seemed to cover a lot of my questions.
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Just a little update. We are putting up a build-system using Cmake to build the source code for the book for any users. We are also adding final finishing touches to the outline and will hand it in to the publisher this Sunday and hope they like it :)
Also waiting for Laurents input on the outline.
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Also I would like to get some input on beginners on what they would like in a book. I'll be visiting a university where they use SFML pretty soon as well so I can ask students new to the concept there as well. But would be nice to get some from the users on the forum as well :)
The publishers work iteratively and agile so the book is always open to changes.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dERsdmNZTTM5dU4zLTdpQ2RmekJ0V2c6MQ#gid=0
To make it easier I have a form here that you can write your answers on.
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Ho god ! I forgot to say it : Good Luck !! I'm thrilled to see the book :D
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Probably already been stated, but be wary of these kind of things.
You get given $x upfront and if you don't hit the deadlines, or the publisher doesn't accept the manuscripts, you have to pay it back - usually with (a lot of) interest. Result? Most books never get finished, and the publishers make a profit for doing nothing.
Get someone with PROPER commercial skills to look at this before you commit. I note that in some cases, 85% of the revenue is taken by the publisher. That's an awful deal.
EDIT: You guys might want to do some work with Google first.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/adult-career-continuing-education/david-barnes/david-barnes-blogger-of-packt-25df2.htm (http://www.ripoffreport.com/adult-career-continuing-education/david-barnes/david-barnes-blogger-of-packt-25df2.htm)
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Packt doesn't seem to have a high reputation. ;) Isn't it possible to write the book without signing any contracts and when you're done contacting publishers or even publishing it yourself? Personally I don't see any benefit of accepting the pressure before anything is actually done.
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Well that guy is an idiot and probably exagerating because of something his own fault. What he is conplaining about is actually part of the sample contract. And clearly he didn't read neither the sample or the live contract. The publisher always reserve things to protect themselves.One of those things are from an incompetent author. If he fails to deliver on mutual agreed deadlines. Packt "wins" the rights and the money. If they cancel the project for any other reason the Author gets everything. Keep the money and the rights to the book. That guy just seems mad at his own failure.
I am of course interested in any information like this but that guy is not credible at all as everything pointed out that it were correctly handled.
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Not sure if it's too late yet or not, but I'd be interested in helping..
Not with SFML knowledge itself, but with the writing, in the sense that I'd like to review and change the book to make it much more user friendly. Groogy shared a draft of his book, which I corrected and modified to, in my opinion, make it much more so.
So yeah, it's up to him, I guess, since he appears to me like the "lead writer" of the project.
I'll just mention beforehand that I AM 14 years old. I honestly don't see it as a problem, but so many people lose their interest when they learn that, I'd rather specify in advance. It also means that I don't want any money whatsoever, I'm not interested by it, nor is it legal for me to be paid.
I'm also part of the IB program; the International Baccalaureate; in English, so I am taking literary English courses. I guess that means that I'm not stuck with basic grammar in school. :p
And finally, I'm considered the "grammar Nazi" of BoxBox's #sfml. ;)
If not, I'm still excited to see this book in action!
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Yeah it would have been very much appreciated but you should have told me earlier. I think I even offered it to you.
We have already signed the contracts so it's set in stone now. Don't know if the editor will agree with us changing the contract so you can join. Besides, what you did is the job the editor has really. Can't let them just have it for free :)
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Alright. ;)
Have fun though, good luck with it too. Don't rush through the book, take your time. :p
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OFF: Hello again guys. After a period of school :( and exams :(( I'm hre back and have a holiday to restart with SFML.
ON: When the book will be ready? Will be writed for SFML 2?
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Yes it is written for SFML 2 and the current schedule is to have the first draft finished around April.
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Just thought that an update was in place. We just finished chapter 8 of 10 and the two last chapters is written primarily by Grimshaw and Nexus so they are done concurrently. The current plan is that our first draft will be done in beginning of April and we are holding our schedule so far and the publisher has been very happy dealing with us. When the book is coming out I can't really say. That's up to the publisher to announce.
While writing we have taken into account of everybody's opinion I have collected, both here on the forum, the survey and from University of Skövde where pretty much everybody use SFML to develop their student projects.
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(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg)
Will be waiting to pre-order this bad boy.
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Well we are not far from being done I feel. All drafts have been completed and now there's just some editorial work left.
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Do you know if that book will be available on Amazon Kindle ?
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I believe the ebook will be made available in the amazon network, there is a good chance it will be on the kindle. :)
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Will there be signed books? I want one signed by nexus ;D
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You can probably arrange something :) buy a book, send it to Nexus and get it returned signed ;)
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Haha :D
Dravere, I think you don't live so far away... Tell me when you're in Zurich or Lucerne :P
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Tell me when you're in Zurich or Lucerne :P
Currently...
Zurich: Monday - Friday
Lucerne: Monday - Sunday
;)
I'll send you a PM as soon as I have bought the book. I'm quite sure we will find a possibility to meet. :D