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Author Topic: sfml for ps4  (Read 20274 times)

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kaB00M

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sfml for ps4
« on: March 27, 2013, 11:37:31 pm »
Is it possible a version of sfml for PlayStation 4, it being very similar to PC architecture and all?

Quote
    64-bit x84 arch
    Low power consumption
    Low heat
    8 cores, HW threads
    2MiB L2-cache per 4 core group, 32kib I1 I/D-cache
    PlayStation Shader Language
    Similar to HLSL
    Allows featured BEYOND DirectX 11 and OpenGL 4.0
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 12:56:05 pm by kaB00M »



eXpl0it3r

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2013, 11:46:47 pm »
Well have you tested it? Personally, I've no idea what PS4 is using and allowing. Does it even support OpenGL?
Also don't you need some special access to develop on PS4?
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FRex

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2013, 12:00:13 am »
Exploiter, PS4 is not out yet. ;D
Back to C++ gamedev with SFML in May 2023

eXpl0it3r

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2013, 12:09:57 am »
Exploiter, PS4 is not out yet. ;D
Meh, I don't care about this console stuff. Was never good with those game pads and why would I want crappy graphics, if I have a PC? ;D

Are at least the specs already out and what API it's supporting?
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Gobbles

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2013, 02:11:48 am »
PS4 is apparently putting a huge push towards indie developers. No words yet on what it will/won't support but it certainly could be a possibility.

Also in the world of indie development, the more platforms you can push your project, all the better. Microsoft had a great thing going with XNA, too bad they dumped it :(

Tank

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2013, 08:37:46 am »
Quote
Meh, I don't care about this console stuff. Was never good with those game pads and why would I want crappy graphics, if I have a PC?
No worries, the man really doesn't want to take away your lolly! :D

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Microsoft had a great thing going with XNA, too bad they dumped it
I'm not sure if a lot of people will really miss it. I'm even convinced that Microsoft had good reasons to drop it.

binary1248

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2013, 06:34:42 pm »
Well, if Sony really sticks with these plans it will mark the beginning of the end of the console era if you ask me. Until now consoles always had specialized hardware (although you could argue they were just highly modified versions of PC hardware). With the PS4, Sony is actually going for hardware that was designed for the PC and packing it into the PS4 in an attempt to "make development easier" for it. XNA was allegedly supposed to make development easier? But at what cost? Locking games developed with it to Microsoft platforms and being built on managed code? It's worse than DirectX and the only one who has an easier time is Microsoft when it comes to "multi-platform" moneymaking.

If you ask me, this is just a move out of desperation because they finally realized that they need a better way to make money out of the game development market than telling developers "hey here is our super customized platform, we know you make successful games so will you think about porting it to PS too?". This always meant the developer had to spend extra money and time tweaking this and that so that their console version would perform as good as the PC version on release, bear in mind that I'm not talking about console to PC ports because that is just pure stupid.

With the new x86-64 architecture and probably also a standard graphics API as well, the developer won't have to worry about porting any more because if they did everything in a standards compliant way it should work on all platforms. I doubt Sony is willing to spend money on thinking of a new graphics API to provide just for the PS4 and obviously DirectX is out of the question so my prediction is that the PS4 is probably going to make use of OpenGL more than anything else.

If the PS4 runs on x86-64 and makes use of OpenGL then there is no reason why SFML shouldn't be able to run on it. Someone would just need to interface the Windowing module in SFML with however the PS4 manages applications and it should work out of the box. I'm not sure what the maturity and adoption state of OpenAL is at the moment but it would be nice to see the PS4 make use of that as well although I think Sony will come up with something different. Audio library support isn't too complicated anyway and shouldn't be a problem.

Whoever still denies that modern consoles are computers either just bends the definition in their favour or has no clue what is inside the plastic box in front of their television.
SFGUI # SFNUL # GLS # Wyrm <- Why do I waste my time on such a useless project? Because I am awesome (first meaning).

fer_t

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2013, 01:12:02 am »
The great advantage of the ps4 is that it has no bus between CPU and GPU so it has very low latency.
Which no (gaming) PC CPU with dedicated graphiccard combination can beat. So this is a ideal environment for games with much physics and (often) mutating objects.
So the PS4 (with this AMD CPU) is better in this as Intel CPUs in modern gaming PCs.

Sorry for bad english, wrote that with my Nexus with german auto-correction ;)

BR,
Fer_t

binary1248

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2013, 08:08:15 pm »
The great advantage of the ps4 is that it has no bus between CPU and GPU so it has very low latency.
So... how does the data get from the CPU to the GPU? No wires, no silicon, magic... You should read up about what a bus really is from a technical point of view and not from the advertising you see everywhere.

The advantage is, because an APU consists of a more or less traditional processor and a number of compute units found in GPUs all on the same die, data exchange does not have to go through a PCIe controller or NorthBridge chipset or whatever. And about the latency. It is almost insignificant. Even if data could get from one point to another in 1ns it is the throughput that matters. Because the buses available only have a fixed width, transfers still take a "long time" because you need to wait for them to complete.

TL;DR: Everything on one die = higher throughput.

Which no (gaming) PC CPU with dedicated graphiccard combination can beat. So this is a ideal environment for games with much physics and (often) mutating objects.
So the PS4 (with this AMD CPU) is better in this as Intel CPUs in modern gaming PCs.
Which Sony salesperson told you this? This is a claim that a product that hasn't even been released is superior to any hardware currently on the market. Until it gets released and gets tested by INDEPENDENT testers don't believe this kind of information. I might also add that it is very application specific. I can already imagine how many PS4 games won't take advantage of the underlying hardware because developers are unwilling to undergo a paradigm change.
SFGUI # SFNUL # GLS # Wyrm <- Why do I waste my time on such a useless project? Because I am awesome (first meaning).

eXpl0it3r

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2013, 08:23:00 pm »
The great advantage of the ps4 is that it has no bus between CPU and GPU so it has very low latency.
Which no (gaming) PC CPU with dedicated graphiccard combination can beat. So this is a ideal environment for games with much physics and (often) mutating objects.
So the PS4 (with this AMD CPU) is better in this as Intel CPUs in modern gaming PCs.
I wonder if you get payed for this kind of "advertising"? :P
Then again since it's about exactly the same, than what you've posted on the C++ forum, I guess not.

Calling anything superior to another thing, without having any real tests at hand, will only end in useless discussions if not flamewars - so what's the point?
Judging from the other post I guess you're talking about shared memory between CPU and GPU. It seems like an interesting path to experiment on, but if it will be good or even a game changer can only be said after the hardware got released and tested.
Besides that, any console will still be limited to a certain fixed hardware setup, which will get superseded a few month after by some newer PC technology - whether it uses that shared memory model or not.
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fer_t

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2013, 01:35:58 am »
Close to the truth boy ;)
But I am not "PS4" ;) I read this and some parts stayed in my mind...
Already the PS3 has great power, so the CELL - processor is very powerful, but you can not compare it with PC CPUs because it is an other architecture... So if you can program it right I think it is more powerful then the common CPUs in PCs.
But this is the problem of console games:
Most developer publish their game on PC, XBOX and PS so they have 3 different architectures and in most cases they first program for PC and only adapt them to the consoles.
But the PS CPU (CELL) need much more programming to get the whole power...

And an other problem:
In the PS3 is a great CPU but few memory and a mid-class graphic card...

But next generation should have a "normal" architecture (Ok I think the x86-64 is obsolete and heavy) so may they can get more power from it ;)
And no I do not want to advertise the PS4.

But guys I think we get off the subject...
So technically it is possible to bring SFML to PS4, but can you share your games? I think for play games on the PS they need to verified by Sony and this is how they get money...
Best regards,
Fer
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 01:40:28 am by fer_t »

Halsys

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2013, 07:42:05 pm »
Kinda hard/impossible to adapt open source libraries to work on Proprietary hardware like a PS4 even if its of the same architecture.... Consoles will always be proprietary somewhere along the lines of its creation.
If the PS4 was okay about releasing its dev kit to the public for free we would have more games, and libraries available.... think Android/IOS.... Now if this was true and OpenGL,OpenAL and all those libraries that SFML uses was available for the PS4. There would be a SFML fork somewhere... Why a fork because PS4 is proprietary. Stuff like Renderwindows would need to be reworked for the likes of another platform. Same might need to fly to get a Xbox or Wii to use SFML... both of which are proprietary and none of those libraries I mentioned are available. Now if you want something... I think SDL has a build file or something to get SDL working on the PS3.... No doubt for Home brewed games only and you might need to break a couple of a US/int laws just to get it working... wouldn't able to sell on PSN.... Still love consoles? Ya no... I wouldn't touch that with a stick.... a long one.

If you want your game for all platforms, use a engine... like Unity or the Unreal Engine. That way you can still make the game. And then later on, down the road you can buy a nice license($1500-or more) to get the game on other platforms.
If you notice I put "....", in my sentences way too much... I'm sorry.

Matt Guerrette

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2014, 08:07:21 pm »
Playstation 3 used libgcm as its rendering api, (PSGL sorta became deprecated). Im assuming developers still continue to use libgcm on PS4.

LibGCM and PSGL was an effort by Khronos (from my knowledge) to develop for Sony a version of opengl that could be used on embedded system with a shader pipeline.

There is *probably* a way to get SFML to run on PS4, but Laurent would A) need a license B) anyone wanting to use SFML for Ps4 would aslo need a license.

This is a similar problem to what MonoGame is going to face as they are currently planning a Ps4 release, but it requires you to be a licensed playstation developer.

cloudncali

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2014, 07:29:26 am »
I have nothing really to say about the technical capabilities. But I can say my personal feelings towards console development.

A few years ago I tried doing 360 development with XNA, I never really made any thing not worthy. But I made a basic asteroid like space shooter. it would spawn a player for each controller and they could shoot at each other.

It wasn't much, really. but something about it, this idea of seeing something I made on a console. really was fascinated me. I do hope someday something like XNA will come around again... but... faster... not C#.... and free for console development. :P

amir ramezani

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Re: sfml for ps4
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2014, 07:30:19 pm »
sony sold his PS4 to the world, but a question that I have is that: does the dev kit available?
I've searched on google, but I've don't found anything
I've found PS3's SDK, but I don't know about PS4
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