Explanation of interactions between Image, Texture, and Sprite?

[Laurent]

And your documentation isn't enough.  The evidence for that is clear, but I'm going to shut my mouth about it.  It's apparent you would rather spend your time answering the same question every day than to admit that the documentation should probably be improved.  It's your time to spend.

I'm the first to admit when the documentation is not complete, and I'm happy to improve it and reduce the amount of dumb questions on the forum. Really.

But how can you say that my documentation is not enough, since the most important piece of documentation, namely the sprite/texture tutorial, is not online yet? Or, if you imply that the tutorial won't be enough no matter what it contains, what else do you suggest?

And you're right about assumptions. I should have answered from the start what I always answer: "don't assume, read the doc"

[FRex]

Here is the link to 2.0 documentation(strangely, the 2.0 documentation contains the 2.0 documentation):
http://www.sfml-dev.org/documentation/2.0/annotated.php

when there are no more references from sf::texture objects.

Every texture is unique, copy of texture will get own resources assigned to it, there is no reference counting in texture.
Here is the link to github texture.cpp, read it:
https://github.com/SFML/SFML/blob/master/src/SFML/Graphics/Texture.cpp

[ichineko]

But how can you say that my documentation is not enough, since the most important piece of documentation, namely the sprite/texture tutorial, is not online yet? Or, if you imply that the tutorial won't be enough no matter what it contains, what else do you suggest?

I think we're speaking from different perspectives Laurent.

The sprite/texture tutorial isn't online, so from my perspective it doesn't exist.  When I say your documentation isn't enough, I mean the documentation you have online right now is not enough.

Documentation that exists, but is not accessible, may as well not exist.

And you're right about assumptions. I should have answered from the start what I always answer: "don't assume, read the doc"

It is not enough.  I don't know how else to say it.  I did not realize a sprite had a lazily calculated transformation matrix that you could not combine with other transformations until I read the source.  I still don't understand why your circle primitive draws from the upper left corner.  I understand it from a technical perspective, but not from a design perspective.

It wasn't until I did go read the source that the meaning behind the API reference started to become clear.  This is what I'm trying to tell you.

You need more, what you have up now is not enough.  If the sprite/texture tutorial is it, great, awesome, I'm happy.  PM me a link, because I'd love to read over it, complete or not.

[ichineko]

also, somewhat off topic, but is there a way to add someone to an ignore list on these boards?  Nothing is jumping out at me as the obvious way to do that.

[masskiller]

It is somewhere in the profile options, it's easily found.

[cire]

And your documentation isn't enough.  The evidence for that is clear, but I'm going to shut my mouth about it.  It's apparent you would rather spend your time answering the same question every day than to admit that the documentation should probably be improved.  It's your time to spend.

I'm actually not seeing any evidence at all.

 

That's not enough or we wouldn't be seeing even more posts about this exact issue.

I did a little searching.  The issue actually seems to be pretty rare on the forums, as far as I could determine using google to search the site.  I found 3 subjects that were obviously related to your assumption in skimming the first 70 or so hits.

http://en.sfml-dev.org/forums/index.php?topic=8586.0
http://en.sfml-dev.org/forums/index.php?topic=8112.0
http://en.sfml-dev.org/forums/index.php?topic=7930.0

The question apparently doesn't come up all that often.  All of them could've been resolved by reading the documentation.  Your assumption could've been resolved by reading the documentation.   What is needed is a magical way to force people to read the documentation.

[Laurent]

The sprite/texture tutorial isn't online, so from my perspective it doesn't exist.  When I say your documentation isn't enough, I mean the documentation you have online right now is not enough.

Documentation that exists, but is not accessible, may as well not exist.

You need more, what you have up now is not enough

Ok, now I think you're an asshole
(no offense, I'm kidding)

Seriously, what's the point of complaining about the incomplete tutorials? It's pretty obvious that I'm still writing them (the graphics section is empty), SFML 2.0 is a development version and has not been released yet. So don't say it's not enough, I know that.

I was expecting you to answer "ok, I understand that the tutorials are incomplete, I'll wait until the final release then" at some point. I don't understand what you're trying to say/prove in this thread.

[ichineko]

Thank you masskiller, I was looking for it in the users profile and not my own.

What is needed is a magical way to force people to read the documentation.

If you say so.  Personally, I thought I did pore over the documentation, but I'm guessing I didn't because otherwise why would you tell me I didn't?  Far be it for me to tell you what I did.

Seriously, what's the point of complaining about the incomplete tutorials? It's pretty obvious that I'm still writing them (the graphics section is empty), SFML 2.0 is a development version and has not been released yet. So don't say it's not enough, I know that.

I'm complaining about the expectation that reading the documentation is enough when the documentation is incomplete.  I had to read the source.  And that's fine, I'm a developer, not a big deal, but I don't like being told to read documentation when it's obviously incomplete.

It's a lame, cop-out answer where a simple explanation would have sufficed.

What I'm *doing* is repeatedly defending that.

[cire]

What is needed is a magical way to force people to read the documentation.

If you say so.  Personally, I thought I did pore over the documentation, but I'm guessing I didn't because otherwise why would you tell me I didn't?  Far be it for me to tell you what I did.

In fact, you told us what you did:

You know, I was going to complain about that link, I *have* been reading those documents.  But then I realized the sprite page did describe the issue I was running into.  I read it the first time I read over the page, but on subsequent visits I didn't hit the 'more' link and so missed it (and had forgotten the warning about keeping the texture alive, although I did remember that they were kept separate which caused unnecessary fears on my part).

You read and didn't retain.  Then you went back and failed to reread (the magical 'more' link just scrolls the page down.)  This doesn't indicate a deficiency in the documentation.  I'm not sure why you want to take my comments as a personal attack.  You say the evidence is obvious, but don't present any. Presenting some would be the logical response.

I'm complaining about the expectation that reading the documentation is enough when the documentation is incomplete.  I had to read the source.  And that's fine, I'm a developer, not a big deal, but I don't like being told to read documentation when it's obviously incomplete.

It's quite possible there are areas of the documentation that are lacking, and I'm sure if you were to bring them to Laurent's attention he would be happy to fix them, but this particular case isn't one of them.

I don't see this conversation going anywhere constructive, so I'll be taking my leave.  Good luck to you.

[ichineko]

Personal?  I think you misunderstand Cire, my point is that you have no business telling me what I did.

I often find people online explaining to me what my argument is, and my response is always the same.  If you have to tell me what my argument is, chances are you're involved in a strawman.

Likewise, if you feel the need to tell me what I did, or didn't do, *despite* my protestations, then chances are you're not correct.

I skimmed over a lot of pages when I first started reading the documentation, to get a general feel for how things work.  I'm sorry you feel I should have remembered every single tidbit, but I didn't.  Call me less if you will, stupid if you must, but don't treat it as something that no one else will do.

Also, I acknowledged the mistake and apologized.  You tell me I'm taking things personally, but no one in this thread has been 'pushed back on' more than me. If I truly took things personally, I'd tell you all to fuck off and go grab Allegro.

Don't mistake my blunt posting style for strong emotion.  I will push back when I feel it necessary, but nothing you say here is going to be taken 'personally' by me.

I'm extremely opinionated, and it rubs people the wrong way many times.  I understand that, there's only been 1 person in this thread whom I thought went too far and was being malicious, that person is being ignored now.


The evidence I was speaking of was the other posts I saw pop up about roughly the same issue.  Am I mistaken?  Then tell me I'm mistaken, and be done with it.

[masskiller]

Ichineko, if you had at least focused only in the question and not on useless arguments this thread would have been resolved long ago and so would have been your doubts. The reason I chose not to butt into this was to see if it calmed down on it's own, given it's not I will give you one effective but blunt advice:

Shut Up!

If you keep on reacting with a wall of text over every single comment you'll annoy everyone here, and eventually yourself since there will most likely someone else to talk further. If you have a question just ask clearly and don't make a fuss over the slightest issues. If you had just ignored Cire's post I wouldn't have written anything and that would have been probably the end of it.

Yes I may be making things a bit longer, but I am at least hoping that with this post you'll understand that making an argument in a help thread will only get you bashed. I have been refraining myself from not doing so, and surely not just me...

but no one in this thread has been 'pushed back on' more than me.

Expect that if you try to push back others when asking for help. I find it unreasonable, but then again I can't do anything against it, can I? And yes I pushed you back once more, so what? Sometimes you just have to swallow things up. It almost looks like you've never been or seen a true argument in a forum or that you are doing this on purpose and are seriously looking for a ban. I prefer to think it's the former.

Personal?  I think you misunderstand Cire, my point is that you have no business telling me what I did.

That quote is the embodiment of taking things personal in my world. Can't really say about yours...

The evidence I was speaking of was the other posts I saw pop up about roughly the same issue.  Am I mistaken?  Then tell me I'm mistaken, and be done with it.

Take up your own words then, making this any longer is rather tedious if you ask me. I won't make flames. I'll just leave it here once again, hoping this is enough to satisfy whatever desire you have in keeping this on.

[ichineko]

The reason I chose not to butt into this was to see if it calmed down on it's own, given it's not I will give you one effective but blunt advice:

Shut Up!

I like you masskiller

As for the rest of it, this forum has a culture that I find a shitty in a lot of ways.  From exploiter whining that a newbie disrespected him (lol), to cire telling me I didn't read something I most definitely did read (but it was personal on my end?) to gyscos telling me I need to post code and then telling me he or she didn't care about my code(say what?).  Maybe I should roll over and ask for my belly to be rubbed, but that's not my personality.  If I get banned for it, so be it.  Sometimes a person just doesn't belong.

Having said that, my view of Laurent is mostly positive, the difference between him and Exploiter is like night and day imo.  Laurent had more reason to be offended, and if he was, he was atleast fair about it.  Exploiter is just ... a prima donna.  And I'm an asshole, so feel free to point it out as often as you wish

[Laurent]

This thread is not going anywhere, so I'm going to lock it.

It's sad to see this kind of behaviour -- and I'm talking about everyone. I don't like threads like this one, it really gives a bad feeling about this forum. I'm sure none of you likes that either. So please, focus on helping and keep your personal feelings for PMs or for yourself.