Looking to Create a Node Based Programming Language

[Chay Hawk]

Hi, I am looking to hire someone to make a node based programming language using C++ and SFML that I am naming Circut Board. Currently the only thing I want to know is how much this would cost to make and how long. I would need someone experienced and capable in completing the job. More info below:

Circut Board is a node based programming language very similar to Epic’s Blueprint in Unreal Engine 4, however CB is designed to be used solely to make 2D games and must be more user friendly but still powerful enough to create entire games using only the nodes. This can be achieved by re-creating C++ functions and abilities in the program and creating pre defined actions the user can choose from. We would include as many pre defined actions as possible but the program would allow users to create nodes by using the nodes in the program themselves, this can be done by allowing the user to create a “User Node” and then name it and save it. This will allow for more flexibility, and it will also allow users to share custom nodes with each other so people with better logical programming skills can help out others who do not posess that ability. Full source code access will be allowed as well once the program is fully completed. This will allow more advanced users to modify the program to their liking, however the average user should be able to make a large scale open world 2D game without having to write a single line of code or even think about it. The job is basically just take the C++ language and make it node based while making it more user friendly and using plain english terms while also adding functionality to be able to create games. SFML will be used to create the interface for the program and more so to handle game creation tasks.

If someone could give me some quotes on a price and timeframe I would greatly appreciate it. You can PM me or send me an email at: thundermountainstudios@yahoo.com

Any questions, feel free to ask.

[K.F]

Just a few heads ups, what you are talking about is called flow-based programming, and it's been around for decades, and there is a good reason that even after all this time, it is still not used a lot, it is not friendly at all for large projects. Small scripts? Sure, huge projects? Absolutely not, all the advantages from having a visual feedback of the program will go out the window, and all what you'll get is a visual mess and a half.

Other point is that C++ is not a good candidate for this kind of programming, not impossible, but other simpler languages might be more suited for this.

[Kojay]

There are a number of engines/software out there that are supposed to let you make 2D games with nodes only and no code:

• Construct 2
• Stencyl
• Godot

to name some.

It would help if you clarified what platforms you wish to target and why these existing solutions fail to satisfy.

[Chay Hawk]

I've used those programs and while they're ok, theres just something about them that isnt intuitive to me, it just isnt easy enough to create anything without spending hours reading and watching tutorials. I want to make somehting where you can just open up the editor and start making something. the syntax and interface should just make sense even if you dont know what your doing. None of those programs really have that, some are close but not quite there. And other programs like RPG Maker and GameMaker require you to learn a scripting language, which is fine but for people with little patiece like myself, its impossible to do. It doesnt have to specifically be flow based but I want to create something new and easy to use but still be powerful enough to create large scale 2D games with. It could be a list based system, so all the actions would be executed in a row and each item would have its own list and the world would have one too, and you can define custom behaviour there. I had something similar on a game project I was working on but it didnt work out because the guy who I contracted to do it was incompetent at everything. Or it could be syntax based, as long as its easy and in laymen terms. I love C++ but I find it to be too time consuming to do most things in, but thats just me. I dont have a better solution, but I know one has to exist, so what would be better to do? I want to create something that will make game design far easier programming wise, and viable on a large scale. Something that handles all of the background stuff and allows the creator to easily create and put together mechanics.

[eXpl0it3r]

To me this sounds more like you're unwillingly to put yourself out of your comfort zone yo invest some time to learn the basics of a tool. Either that, or you just have a lot of trouble picking something up.

But fair enough, creating a software that works in the way that would make most sense to you is one way to go. However in order for anyone experienced enough to even consider such an undertaking, you need to be well prepared. You need to have quite some documents ready laying out what your requirements and thought processes are. If all you can give to a developer is "something that makes it easier to create games", then you'll never see anyone willing to take on the project, because it would mean days and days of calls and all kinds of techniques just to figure out what you actually want or mean with a specific statement.

As for a figure, I doubt one could add a fixed price to such a project. You haven't give a scope where the project should start and where it should end. As such I'd say you'd have to make out an hourly, weekly or monthly payment.

[Chay Hawk]

I definetly have tried very hard to learn C++ and other languages, it is quite difficult for me to pick up on things. I have to have them explained to me just right or else I will be completely lost and won't understand, if I don't understand what every little thing does and why it does it, then I will understand none of it more likely than not. I've found myself in this situation many times over the 7 or 8 years I've been trying to learn C++. I'll never stop trying, I'm not one to give up easily, or at all really.

I understand I will need a lot of documentation and prep work, I'm fully willing to do it by I just wanted to see what others thought of it first. I didn't want to create a full DD for something that would be too difficult or impossible to make. I guess a price would be better figure able if the full scope of the project were realized and all the details made clear, however since the node based programming idea won't work I'm unsure what would be best and easy. I have used c++ for quite some time and as I stated, I find it to be time consuming to set up something basic. Create classes and functions, variables, put function prototypes at the top of main or in a separate file, initialize class variables, putting variables in the function initializer lists etc etc. After all that or more you can developed your program. I want to skip all that, I want the program to handle all that stuff and just get to the meat of the program, to skip all the monotony and time consuming bits.

[Kojay]

It is time-consuming to set up everything in C++. To go from all C++ to all nodes with no code, is swinging from one extreme to the other. An existing engine with scripts on top is the middle of the way - and though I don't have stats at hand, it seems to me the choice of most indie studios.

Part of the project sounds like UI/UX design, catering to your intuition and mindset. It is fine if that is what you wish to pay for, although there will certainly be people who will find the interface/workflow just as unintuitive as you find that of the aforementioned programs.

Personally, I am cautious about anything that sounds like reinventing the wheel. I'm not saying we can't do better, but I believe a better design emerges only after sufficient experience with the current tools and an understanding of their shortcomings.

[Chay Hawk]

Well it doesnt have to be nodes, it can be anything really, as long as it skips all the time consuming bits. Scripts would be fine. I want to create a 2D Game maker that allows for both top down and side scroller creation. I'm aware of RPG Maker and GameMaker and a few others and I own them but they both have their problems, especially RPG Maker.

Yeah, im sure no matter what i make, no matter how simple i try to make it, others will find it difficult, but I mainly just want something for myself really, if others find it useful, then great. But I have been trying to create something for the past 10 years and over that time I have used many game engines and creation software, and none have helped me, so i figured why not just make something thats easy for me to understand. I mean think of it this way, if you want to draw something on a piece of paper, it would be annoying if everytime you had to make your paper and pen, when i want to create something i just want the paper and pen already. Not to say th3 background stuff isnt imortant at all becaus it is, its imperitive to the program but i just find it disheartening to have to do all that stuff just to make a simple character move left or right.

What if the program had a file for each object where you could place lists of actions into boxes and it executes from top to bottom and then you can create another box and do the same and connect them together in order of what you want executed. Not exactly flow based but sort of close. There could be boxes that allow you to type in scripts if need be but i want to try to stay away from scrips now that i think about it more, unless theyre really simple to create something with.

But idk what do you think? Im just trying to find an idea that will work. I mean UE4 uses node based programming, blueprint, and ive seen people make amazing things with it using just that and no code or scripts.

[StubblyOne]

This sounds like you want a fully blown editor built to your needs. This would take 1000s of man hours as you dont know exactly what youre after and at a huge cost. Your time would be better spent learning an already built tool. Pick up a book on chosen tool and read it slowly and let the information sink in. At the same time use the techniques within the tool over and over. Repitition will help you soak up the information needed.

Only way to learn is by doing.  C++ is one of the harder languages to learn, you may be better off learning a higher level language like C# or Java. You will pick up the concepts quicker, then come back to C++ later.

If you come back with specifications on what exactly you are after, we may be able to put a ball park figure on a price. But you have to remember no project runs smoothly, there will always be things that need to be changed, this adds development time and cost to the project.

Tools like Unity or UE4 have lots of developers working on them at a great expense. If you go down the road of hiring a developer/team be prepared to pay alot of money for their service. Developers are not cheap.

Eg: the project my team are working on, if we were getting paid for it, would cost in the region of $200-300k in wages, thats if we didn't come across any problems.