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priomsrb

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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2010, 01:23:31 pm »
Thanks for your insight. I didn't think about having large number of zombies before. It could be interesting, gameplay wise. However there may be issues with CPU usage (due to pathfinding) and network bandwith. However those may be overcome by clever(and perhaps tricky) optimizations.

But the game is still being balanced so we could try adding in large numbers and see how it plays.

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Also with larger maps you can have multiple buildings. So, the player will have an incentive to move around more (besides avoiding zombies).

Yeah there is a lot of map ideas that should be tried out. I will try to put up a mapping guide in a later release. If you want to try it now just open the data/maps/test_map.svg file in inkscape. (Hint: you can use the object properties dialog to change different map/object parameters)

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Another interesting mechanic would be if more zombies were spawned near a player that is near the edge of the map. Perhaps it could be used somehow to prevent players from getting to the edge of the map (so you can't walk off the map, or you have to use an "invisible wall", zombies preventing you from walking off the map is better IMO).

I also think having boundary walls doesnt feel right. My idea was that if the player goes too far out then he starts becoming affected by radiation and starts slowing down, so eventually the zombies will get him ;)

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I don't think zombies should upgrade with each level, but if they do then the player needs to be able to upgrade as well. This will make balancing the game harder (but it might make it more fun). I think upgrades should be left out at least until the game is more complete.

The zombies only start levelling after spawn data has finished (round 10 in the default map). I did this because in zombie games it sometimes gets to a stage when equilibrium is reached, ie the players can hold out indefinately. So I added that to make it more challenging for advanced players, and to also make sure the game doesn't end up being boring in the later stages. Also, yes upgrades are being thought of for later versions.

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Also, rather than having spawning points, zombies should be spawned at the edge of maps as if they were walking in from a random direction.

Well I think it should be up to the level designer to choose that. Because some maps may require certain positions for spawn points. Anyway if you want you can position the spawn points all around the edges of the map, achieving the same effect.

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I should probably write up a document or something because there are a lot more details that I could go into besides the above.

Sure. We'd love to hear your ideas. You are welcome to use the project wiki if you wish.

Recruit0

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« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2010, 07:31:58 pm »
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I didn't think about having large number of zombies before... However there may be issues with CPU usage (due to pathfinding) and network bandwith.
200 units on the map shouldn't cause problems for now. Later when we try to support 1000s it'll be a problem.

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My idea was that if the player goes too far out then he starts becoming affected by radiation and starts slowing down...
Better yet, have a radiation cloud surrounding the outskirts of the map (graphics). If the player walks off the map, they die (or perhaps get radiation poisoning, but make the damage high enough that the player won't walk off the map). This could also be used in other areas of the map so the player has to avoid them, and could be used to trick zombies into walking into them and taking damage.

I have a few thoughts about the HUD. The goal of these changes is to center vital information near the player's character:
  • Instead of a health bar, show a health donut (or circle) under the player's character.
  • Same with ammo bar (draw gray donut around the green health donut/circle) Then show pictures of clips rather rather than listing how much ammo they have.
  • Move the reload bar near the mouse cursor. Perhaps change it also to a donut/circle.
  • Only the level number and number of points is left. Move these to the top center of the screen.
Also I saw on the wiki a list of redundant weapons. Each weapon should be as unique as possible, so that the player has more of a choice (rather than it not mattering, i.e. each weapon actually has a purpose). Basically, multiple shotgun/machineguns should mean that they do different things. e.g.:
  • Have a machine gun with a huge clip (shoots longer, already in the game tho) and another that pushes back the target.
  • Sniper rifle that pierces through everything (including walls and windows) and another where if it hits the target in the head (passes near the middle of it) then it instantly kills. Sniper rifles have Scope Mode in which you can view any area by scrolling with mouse (camera lock turns off).
  • Using real gun models (e.g. AK47, M4, etc.) may not be practical.
  • Shotgun allows you to hit multiple targets in front of you.
  • Sticky grenade, ice grenade, regular grenade. Targets that were hit by an incendiary grenade will light other nearby targets (only the original target hit by the grenade can spread fire, other targets that caught on fire don't).
  • Bear traps. Land mine that instantly kills target and another that damages group of targets. Ice land mine. Barrels of oil to light areas on fire.
  • Pistol and SMG can be dual-wielded (but slows down reload time).
  • Player should be able to hold up to 2 weapons at the same time ( choose wisely ;) )
Another interesting thing would be to have guns and supplies air dropped onto the map. Could be drawn with a circle that moves around until the box lands (with 4 lines connecting circle and box, i.e. you can see the box under the circle/parachute while it's swaying around until it drops). Once the box lands, the parachute automatically (magically) disappears.

Buildings should be used as choke points (easier to defend).

Zombie dogs slow you down when they attack you (25%). Would be fun to have level 10 or something where there's a lot of dogs, in which case it'd be best to setup traps (surrounded by dogs = can't move = dead).

Arcade Mode: You don't set off your own traps (if you step on a land mine, it doesn't blow up). No friendly-fire (can't hurt team mates). Among other things which make the game easier (more fun for casual gamers).

Mercenary Mode: Rules are more realistic (step on a land mine, you detonate it). Friendly-fire (watch your aim now). Makes game harder (more fun for hard-core gamers).

Also would be good if the player could sprint too.

And when zombie kills a team mate, they turn into zombie.

Also need a replay system so people can show off their kills :D

Hugo

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« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2010, 03:57:40 am »
or have fog around the map

and add turrets as an upgrade, maybe a home base surrounded with turrets and you have to go out and "home base-ify" other bases until you've conquered every base in the province.... then make them do it again in the next province, and the next province, and the next.
Maybe you could have a different zombie in each province?

How about an unlimited province system?

Perhaps have cars or helicopters as a way of traveling provinces, and to make it realistic, you rescue an engineer who has a machine that makes fuel out og oxygen, it is a light and portable machine.... but takes a long time to fill up a car's gas tank. Also he lives in your current bases' basement and you must protect the door of the basement as well as yourself

[/i]

Recruit0

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« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2010, 10:30:14 pm »
Quote from: "priomsrb"
Sure. We'd love to hear your ideas. You are welcome to use the project wiki if you wish.
I don't have permission to edit any of the pages.

priomsrb

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« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2010, 01:22:14 pm »
Sorry for my late reply. I've been a bit busy the last few days with assignments and stuff.

Firstly, wow! You guys came up with some really nice ideas.

Quote from: "Recruit0"
Instead of a health bar, show a health donut (or circle) under the player's character.

Thats a very good idea because when you're getting damaged, it is hard to look at the corner of the screen, because you will be looking at your player and trying to dodge.

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Same with ammo bar (draw gray donut around the green health donut/circle) Then show pictures of clips rather rather than listing how much ammo they have.

I'm not fully sure about this one though. Having it around the player means it constantly moves around. Also not as much info can be shown around the player. Also say you're sniping, you won't be able to see yourself if you zoom faraway and so you can't see your ammo. That's why I think it will be better to keep the ammo in a constant position on the screen.
Showing clips might be a good idea because it requires less mathmatical skills. (what is 105 / 35? quick! ;))

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Move the reload bar near the mouse cursor. Perhaps change it also to a donut/circle.

I was thinking the same thing.

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Only the level number and number of points is left. Move these to the top center of the screen.

We could try that.

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Also I saw on the wiki a list of redundant weapons. Each weapon should be as unique as possible, so that the player has more of a choice (rather than it not mattering, i.e. each weapon actually has a purpose). Basically, multiple shotgun/machineguns should mean that they do different things.

This was mainly because we were going for a realisitc weapons theme. Also having more variety of weapons gives players more choice (should I use a sub machine gun with faster fire rate or more accuracy?). Anyhow the weapons system is flexible so either system could be used.

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Sniper rifle that pierces through everything (including walls and windows) and another where if it hits the target in the head (passes near the middle of it) then it instantly kills. Sniper rifles have Scope Mode in which you can view any area by scrolling with mouse (camera lock turns off).

Yeah, bullet penetration is needed especially when the number of zombies increases. Headshots will be a bit tricky but I will try anyway. Scoping is also a good idea. Also red-dot sight could be done for other weapons as well.

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Using real gun models (e.g. AK47, M4, etc.) may not be practical.

I guess it is harder to balance when you try to have realistic weapons as well. But again this is not too big of an issue.

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Sticky grenade, ice grenade, regular grenade. Targets that were hit by an incendiary grenade will light other nearby targets (only the original target hit by the grenade can spread fire, other targets that caught on fire don't).

Yup grenades. Also, fire sounds quite interesting. It could spread when zombies are too close together :D

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Bear traps. Land mine that instantly kills target and another that damages group of targets. Ice land mine. Barrels of oil to light areas on fire.

Yup. I'm thinking of adding land mines in the next release.

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Pistol and SMG can be dual-wielded (but slows down reload time).
Player should be able to hold up to 2 weapons at the same time ( choose wisely )

Dual wielding should be done in such a way that it is intuitive. Maybe you can only carry 2 weapons around, and if you press a key, then the character tries to duel wield (if weapon weights allow). When duel wielding, left mouse button should shoot weapon one, right mouse button should be weapon 2. That way you can't zoom when duel wielding.

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Another interesting thing would be to have guns and supplies air dropped onto the map. Could be drawn with a circle that moves around until the box lands (with 4 lines connecting circle and box, i.e. you can see the box under the circle/parachute while it's swaying around until it drops). Once the box lands, the parachute automatically (magically) disappears.

Parachutes are a nice idea. They will give the incentive to move around in the map rather than camping in one spot.

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Zombie dogs slow you down when they attack you (25%). Would be fun to have level 10 or something where there's a lot of dogs, in which case it'd be best to setup traps (surrounded by dogs = can't move = dead).

Yes more special levels will be good. Also how about spider zombies. They should move around fast and erratically.

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Arcade Mode: You don't set off your own traps (if you step on a land mine, it doesn't blow up). No friendly-fire (can't hurt team mates). Among other things which make the game easier (more fun for casual gamers).

A friend of mine suggested the same thing.

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Also would be good if the player could sprint too.

Yeah this would need to be done in a balanced way.

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And when zombie kills a team mate, they turn into zombie.

Maybe a game mode? We thought of some other ones as well:
- Competitive Mode: Player who kills the most zombies in a round gets a point. Person with the most points at the end wins.
- Sabotage Mode: The players try to indirectly kill each other. Use traps, lock doors, trick zombies etc. Who's gonna spend their money to open that door first? ;)
- Pascifist Mode: Try to survive as long as possible without weapons. Using traps is allowed.

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Also need a replay system so people can show off their kills

Yeah. Also it's useful for confirming high-scores.

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Wow thats a lot of ideas. It'll definately be hard to implement all of those. That's why I'm trying to do things incrementally. But it's nice to see that there are a lot of possibilities.

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I don't have permission to edit any of the pages.

Yeah it turns out normal users can't edit the sourceforge hosted wiki pages. So I've created a new one on Wikia. It seems much better. Faster, easier to use, customisable, only disadvantage are the ads. This should be editiable by anyone. URL: http://uzf.wikia.com

priomsrb

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« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2010, 01:35:59 pm »
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and add turrets as an upgrade, maybe a home base surrounded with turrets and you have to go out and "home base-ify" other bases until you've conquered every base in the province.... then make them do it again in the next province, and the next province, and the next.
Maybe you could have a different zombie in each province?

That's quite interesting. Kind of like a single player campaign mode. Also turrets can be useful if you put them strategic positions. But it should cost to reload them otherwise players may abuse them.

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Perhaps have cars or helicopters as a way of traveling provinces, and to make it realistic, you rescue an engineer who has a machine that makes fuel out og oxygen, it is a light and portable machine.... but takes a long time to fill up a car's gas tank. Also he lives in your current bases' basement and you must protect the door of the basement as well as yourself

That's another interesting concept. You can rescue survivors, keep them safe and in return they help you.

Like I said before, I can't promise anything at the moment because there are many ideas to think about. First priority is definately to get the basics working especially multiplayer.

On another note, my friend who is doing the artwork said that others can join in. If you are happy to make some art, we'll try to put it in the game. But we'll need to talk over what sprites/images we will need and stuff.

Recruit0

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« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2010, 08:23:12 pm »
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Also say you're sniping, you won't be able to see yourself if you zoom faraway and so you can't see your ammo.
I see. Then have the ammo donut (that sounds funny for some reason) around the mouse cursor. Then the reload and ammo donut will be right there (where you're aiming at).

Also make the screen flash red around the corners (like in those other shooter games) so that the player knows they're being attacked even if they're sniping.

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(should I use a sub machine gun with faster fire rate or more accuracy?)
This doesn't provide enough of a difference to really matter. Having multiple weapons with the same main attribute (e.g. faster firing rate or accuracy) won't give players much options. As in, it won't *really* matter what they choose, since every weapon will be just variations of damage/sec, AOE, range, ROF, etc. There needs to be more attributes (e.g. pushing target back, piercing multiple targets, etc) to distinguish each weapon (option) from each other.

Also realistic weapons are harder to balance because they are (evidently) not balanced (e.g. a sniper rifle is more dangerous than a bow and arrow, this cannot be balanced, unless one just blatantly ignores the facts).

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When duel wielding, left mouse button should shoot weapon one, right mouse button should be weapon 2. That way you can't zoom when duel wielding.
You can't dual wield sniper rifles anyway ( that's just silly ;) ). But left/right for dual wield firing makes sense so that player can either shoot one at time (while other gun reloads) for constant ROF or shoot simultaneously (maximum damage).

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And when zombie kills a team mate, they turn into zombie.
Maybe a game mode?
I was thinking to make it make sense (when zombies kill people, they usually turn into zombies).

OR: Instead of Mercenary Mode, call it Ultimate Mode. Also add when player is attacked by a dark green zombie, they'll turn into zombie after so many minutes ( 30 ? ) unless they get a serum/cure (only the dark green zombies can turn players so they gotta pay extra attention to them, cuz cures are rare).

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Yeah. Also it's useful for confirming high-scores.
Replays can be faked though... We'd have to use public key encryption (digital signature) to prevent "counterfeit" scores (may be implemented much later when it really matters).

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Wow thats a lot of ideas. It'll definately be hard to implement all of those.
Actually, I imagine it won't be that difficult. It'll mostly be time consuming (i.e. require lots of thought on designing the code).

Speaking of campaign, there should be civilians that you have to protect (if they die, they turn into zombies) If all civilians die, game over.

To better support extremely large maps, the sprites may need to be smaller (max 50%, probably shrink to at least 75% original size) to fit more details on the screen (this is 2D, we can squeeze *a lot* more stuff than 3D gfx) and make the screen size bigger.

priomsrb

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« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2010, 03:15:54 pm »
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I see. Then have the ammo donut (that sounds funny for some reason) around the mouse cursor. Then the reload and ammo donut will be right there (where you're aiming at).

We could try that and see what it looks like.

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Also make the screen flash red around the corners (like in those other shooter games) so that the player knows they're being attacked even if they're sniping.

True but unlike shooter games, the enemies can only melee. So getting a direction for the hit might not be as useful. We could try nonetheless.

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This doesn't provide enough of a difference to really matter. Having multiple weapons with the same main attribute (e.g. faster firing rate or accuracy) won't give players much options. As in, it won't *really* matter what they choose, since every weapon will be just variations of damage/sec, AOE, range, ROF, etc. There needs to be more attributes (e.g. pushing target back, piercing multiple targets, etc) to distinguish each weapon (option) from each other.

I agree. It will be better for the weapons to have different qualities rather than just changes in damage, ROF etc.

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Also realistic weapons are harder to balance because they are (evidently) not balanced (e.g. a sniper rifle is more dangerous than a bow and arrow, this cannot be balanced, unless one just blatantly ignores the facts).

Unless it's a rambo bow ;)

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You can't dual wield sniper rifles anyway ( that's just silly Wink ).

What I meant is that when single wielding, right click will be used for aiming. So when the player shoots without right click, he will move faster but the shots will be less accurate since they will be from the hip. When they are aiming, they will move slower but will be more accurate. So when duel wielding, the player will only be able to hip shoot (which is realistic)

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I was thinking to make it make sense (when zombies kill people, they usually turn into zombies).

OR: Instead of Mercenary Mode, call it Ultimate Mode. Also add when player is attacked by a dark green zombie, they'll turn into zombie after so many minutes ( 30 ? ) unless they get a serum/cure (only the dark green zombies can turn players so they gotta pay extra attention to them, cuz cures are rare).

Infection could be an interesting mechanic. Finding cures is also a nice idea.

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To better support extremely large maps, the sprites may need to be smaller (max 50%, probably shrink to at least 75% original size) to fit more details on the screen (this is 2D, we can squeeze *a lot* more stuff than 3D gfx) and make the screen size bigger.

Thankfully sfml views can zoom in/out so we can change the view easily.

Recruit0

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« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2010, 04:53:54 am »
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So getting a direction for the hit might not be as useful.
I didn't mean red flash in direction of attack, I meant the screen flashing red. The point of this is so that when a player is in Scope Mode (i.e. when they can't see their character) they can tell if they're being attacked.

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What I meant is that when single wielding, right click will be used for aiming...
What about just let players use different positions (Standing, Prone and Kneeling)? Holding a button down to aim doesn't really make sense. There are parts of the CoD series and other FPS games I don't agree with, and this is one of them. Example: In sniper mode you have to hold down a button to "steady" your aim. This is more of an obstacle rather than a feature (it's like a handy cap actually, i.e. you can't aim properly unless you hold down this button).

priomsrb

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« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2010, 11:03:02 pm »
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I didn't mean red flash in direction of attack, I meant the screen flashing red. The point of this is so that when a player is in Scope Mode (i.e. when they can't see their character) they can tell if they're being attacked.

I'm not sure what you mean. Right now the screen does go red when you are attacked. Are you talking about something different?

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What about just let players use different positions (Standing, Prone and Kneeling)? Holding a button down to aim doesn't really make sense. There are parts of the CoD series and other FPS games I don't agree with, and this is one of them. Example: In sniper mode you have to hold down a button to "steady" your aim. This is more of an obstacle rather than a feature (it's like a handy cap actually, i.e. you can't aim properly unless you hold down this button).

Hmm. But what benefit will standing, proning or kneeling have in a top down game where the enemies can only melee?

I suggest having an aim mode, because realistically if you run around with a gun, your shots will be inaccurate. On the other hand if you aim down the sights to get a good shot, you will move much slower. So there are 2 options which need to be used for different situations. But I do see your concern with using different buttons to switch modes rather than having a single mode. Maybe there can be a middle ground somewhere.

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« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2010, 01:43:01 am »
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I'm not sure what you mean...
Sorry that was stupid on my part. That's what I meant (i.e. I wasn't paying attention and the game already does it).

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But what benefit will standing, proning or kneeling have in a top down game where the enemies can only melee?
Each position will allow you different levels of accuracy (trades mobility for accuracy). It can also be used to hide better against zombies (man standing up in the open is easier to see than man crouched behind an obstacle sniping). Which ties into another thing:

Zombies shouldn't just automatically go towards where the player is even though they can't see them. They shouldn't be this "smart". They should only chase after the player when they can either see/hear them (or other zombies are chasing them). This will require they have weak AI.

I'll continue writing more ideas into the wiki but I need to focus on cpGUI (in order to release it by the end of the month).

priomsrb

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« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2010, 09:32:49 pm »
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Zombies shouldn't just automatically go towards where the player is even though they can't see them. They shouldn't be this "smart". They should only chase after the player when they can either see/hear them (or other zombies are chasing them). This will require they have weak AI.

I'm thinking that there could be a broadcast locating system. When the player makes a loud sound or is spotted by a zombie, his position is broadcast to all the zombies. The zombies then head for that position. There could be areas of the map that are shadowed, and the zombies can't see the player if he is hiding there (also works if the player hides behind obstacles).

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I'll continue writing more ideas into the wiki but I need to focus on cpGUI (in order to release it by the end of the month).

Nice work on the wiki. Also good luck with cpGUI.

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« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2010, 04:43:30 pm »
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I'm thinking that there could be a broadcast locating system...
Yeah that's wut i was thinking. Whenever weapons make a sound, it chains through and gets all the zombies to respond depending on if they'd hear it or not.

With spotting you, only zombies that can see that zombie should follow it.

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Nice work on the wiki. Also good luck with cpGUI.
Thanks. It's not that complicated (not as complicated as UZF anyway). Most of my effort is going into making myself finish what I started.  :lol:

GreenFlame

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« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2010, 04:13:59 pm »
Hello, priomsrb, i was randomly looking  through the forum and found your project(Btw, a very nice game!), as i understand, you use Box2D and Cmake for collision, i tried to launch it some time ago, but it was sophisticated enough...
I'm very happy that i've finally found someone, who knows how to use Box2D, so could you explain to me how to work with it or give me a link to a good tutorial and to the source code for your game if it is open-source?

Thanks in Advance =)

priomsrb

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« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2010, 04:45:56 am »
Hi GreenFlame. Sorry for the late reply. Somehow I didn't get a notification email for your message.

Yes Box2D is used for collisions and physics but CMake is used for generating makefiles and compiling.

For 2d physics/collision you can Box2d or chipmunk. For both I used the official manuals to find out how they work. There are plenty of tutorials available on google as well. It's not very easy to explain how they work in a forum post (I forgot a lot of it as well), but it is not too difficult.

The source code for my game is available here. You can find some examples of Box2d code in src/Engine/PhysicalScene.cpp and src/Objects/Bullet.cpp::setupPhysics().

 

anything